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Increased Car Prices and $12k FSD...Just Insanity!
- Thread starter Resist
- Start date
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Just for kicks I searched for GM Super Cruise price. Super Cruise offers only few of the FSD features - like lane keeping. Still ...
The True Cost Of Super Cruise On The 2021 Cadillac CT5
It's certainly more than the official price of $2,500.
gmauthority.com
I wonder who is delusional - Elon or people complaining about FSD price
May be Tesla should say - you can get FSD only if you buy performance models and then it is a $5k option. They will be happy.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
This is easily rectified by ordering a Performance Mode Y which doesn't require FSD to get it in May.
Just for kicks I searched for GM Super Cruise price. Super Cruise offers only few of the FSD features - like lane keeping. Still ...
The True Cost Of Super Cruise On The 2021 Cadillac CT5
It's certainly more than the official price of $2,500.
I wonder who is delusional - Elon or people complaining about FSD price
May be Tesla should say - you can get FSD only if you buy performance models and then it is a $5k option. They will be happy.
Nobody is delusional.
Elon has his rationality for the price of FSD
Consumers have their rationality of their complaint about FSD. Like if I didn't already have FSD my main complaint would be the fact that all I wanted was Auto lane change, and I can't see paying $12K for that.
As time goes on I think consumers will demand these driver aids on lower end models.
The same thing happened with active safety features where brands like Subaru required people to get higher end trims to get Eyesight. My mom complained about this as it was a feature she wanted, but she didn't want the higher end trim.
Tesla was the only manufacture I knew of at the time that offered all the safety features standard on the base model, and I appreciated that. Most companies seem to have those safety features on base models per the agreement with the NHTSA regarding AEB.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
My comment was specific to OP asserting Elon is delusional because of FSD price
Elon said we will have full self driving complete this year...again. LOLI put too much faith in Elon when he told us will turn my car into a money-making machine!anyhow, now we all know it is a lot harder problem to solve than what anyone in the industry expected!
He needs to stop making promises like this, all it does is fool people out of their hard earned money and end in disappointment.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FWIW there's also a substantial difference between "feature complete" and "robotaxis"
Elon has explained this in some detail, multiple times.
Essentially "feature complete" is "Has all the tools to have a non-zero chance of 0 intervention self driving"---- NOT "is ready to be a full time robotaxi"
THAT said- I don't expect either will actually happen this year since we know the FSDBeta code lacks an OEDR to be better than L2 and Tesla has no plans to change that.
I agree- he's explicitly said when it's something he's never done before he has no idea how long it'll really take--- and yet keeps giving dates. It's silly.
If people are too dumb to read the actual description of the product they are buying- which TELLS THEM IN WRITING it's an L2 system and promises them NOTHING not yet delivered other than "autosteer on city streets"- that's really on them at this point.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Given the FSD money taken for undelivered features can not be recognized by Tesla as revenue- in fact it instead sits as a liability on their books-- combined with the fact the total amount of it is a tiny fraction of the actual cash Tesla has just sitting around - what possible motivation can you believe exists for that to be his "goal"?
Sludog
Member
Only 10% off new Tesla owners bought FSD last year and that was only $10k. Now its $12k so I cant imagine adding more customers. In fact I know quite a few owners who had FSD in their previous Tesla and recently upgraded to a new Tesla and did not buy FSD saying it was a waste of money. I would be willing to pay up to $5k for Enhanced Autopilot since all I want is auto lane change on road trips but until then ill just pay $200 for each time we drive cross country.This all illustrates the beauty and power of the free market. $12K is too much for some people, and they will not pay it. If enough people don't pay it, then Tesla will alter their pricing accordingly. That's how everything is priced - it's what the market will bear.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Apparently Tesla thinks its better to sell FSD to 1 person rather than $5k EAP to 2 people.
Anyway, they are not going to reduce FSD - esp. since subscription is available. Infact, once FSD gets closer to human level, they will switch to subscription only, IMO. With subscription they can book the entire amount as revenue and what is available today is what you are paying for.
Given that unlike traditional options, Tesla has to continuously invest in R&D ... it makes perfect sense to make FSD a subscription. I'm sure other companies will start doing that as well ....
I think it can be a bit more expanded than that.
FSD seems to be used as a marketing tool where it leverages social media to plant the idea in the minds of customers along with investors that at some point in the near future it will be capable of autonomous driving.
As it exist today its sold as an L2 system with no guarantee of performance at all or any promise that it will ever be autonomous. Even older customers who had the promise of autonomous driving in writing on the order page have to accept that the promise no longer stands. It no longer stands because it seems extremely likely that Tesla will force customers to give up L2 on city streets in exchange for a refund of not anymore than $3K.
The price hikes to FSD don't seem to follow actual capabilities increases and instead they're designed to help the hype surrounding a pending one regardless of whether it pans out or not.
Elon also tries to convince people that FSD subscription pricing will go up. But, the nice thing about that one is it won't go up until a feature is valuable to customers. It never went up when FSD went from $10K to $12K.
Customers might hate subscription model pricing, but I see it as being the only thing that can save Tesla customers from L2 systems that don't meet expectations, and autonomous promises that never come true.
It allows the customer to upgrade vehicles without worrying about the monetary loss on FSD being worth less on a trade in that it cost new despite being the same thing.
It forces Tesla to improve customer engagement in order to retain customers within the FSD Subscription program. Things like FSD Beta or NoA would be significantly better for me if someone at Tesla fixed the map glitches that were causing it to screw up.
An L2 system can be worth $199/month to a lot of people if its really good. If they feel like the only thing standing in the way of it being autonomous is absurdly high safety standards.
Where comments on TMC are mostly anger at not flipping the switch versus talking about things like it turning on the turn signal during a normal corner.
They’re recognizing a fair chunk of that money as revenue since they claim BS features like stop light and “smart” summon detection count as FSD.
My reasoning is simple. He’s a billionaire, and you don’t become a billionaire by being honest or caring for people.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Elon doesn't get to decide how much is recognized. The auditors have to agree.
And we don't know what % is actually recognized.
Anyway, what was your point ?
It's not defined by it, but it's hard to accumulate that much wealth unless you're willing to bend the truth a bit.
Imagine trying to date while being completely honest.
In a lot of ways society want leaders that can paint a rosy picture of things. No one wants a "looks like its another gloomy day today as we head towards inevitable disaster" kind of leader.
I think I missed out on my career calling.
An auditor that gets to tell Tesla "No soup for you"
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I doubt you can get away with using your personal prejudices … your company would fire you
ps : I would be very interested in seeing what % they have recognized and what the justification is. Quite a difficult problem since you don’t know what % of work has been done / finished.
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