Infiniti LE

[domenick]

Though the price of the leaf was a pleasant surprise. They might do that again.

Unfortunately, in real life the asterisked $27,000 price on the Nissan website gets turned into $38,750 when actually finding one. Not to mention one has to earn a lot more money than I do to actually take advantage of the $7,500 rebate.

I can't see how the Infiniti LE competes with a Tesla S now, let alone two years from now. Price? Interior/storage space? Performance? Range? That's maybe, nope, nope and nope. Won't even mention dealer experience.

 

[TEG]

NISSAN | Infiniti LE Concept Zero Emission Luxury Sedan Makes World Debut at New York International Auto Show

...Torque of 240 lb-ft is instantly available immediately at all times. The Infiniti LE Concept's battery system is a proven laminated 24 kWh lithium-ion (Li-ion) design with a ChaDeMo DC50kW quick charger...

...The system's non-contact charging is via inductive energy flow, with a coil safely encased on the garage floor. The high-frequency AC-3.3 kW charging, controlled by the twin display or smartphone, is safe for children and pets and can be installed easily in a home garage...

 

[stopcrazypp]

But cost can't be $70k. Market @ 70k is much smaller than at $40k. 85kWh Model S is simply too small a niche if one is interested in widespread adoption of EVs. It is just a rich man's differentiator.

Why can't it optioned up to $70k (I'm expecting it to start at ~$40k)? We are talking about a luxury car here (at this point even the Leaf haven't topped this yet). Again, I'm not talking about "mass market" car like the Leaf. I'm talking about what makes sense for a car like the LE. I think Nissan should at least provide battery options (if not outright just raise the pack size).

Not really. Tesla chemistry doesn't lend itself to QC easily. As I've shown in practical examples earlier, a 100 mile range EV + CHAdeMO is more convinient than a 40 kwh Model S for inter-city travel.

You didn't specify QC as a requirement (nor do I think it is a requirement for EVs overall, esp. given the current state of infrastructure). Personally, I'll take 40kWh (100+ EPA) with no QC over 73 miles EPA + CHAdeMO. 73 miles EPA means I have to stop midway in a frequent trip I take, and there may not be a CHAdeMO station available in between.

Coda isn't exactly cheap - nor efficient. We don't know how good their battery is - doesn't have QC.

It's not cheap/efficient but it's still in the $40k price range and it stlll got 88 miles EPA. Again, QC is not a set requirement.

 

[EVNow]

You didn't specify QC as a requirement (nor do I think it is a requirement for EVs overall, esp. given the current state of infrastructure). Personally, I'll take 40kWh (100+ EPA) with no QC over 73 miles EPA + CHAdeMO. 73 miles EPA means I have to stop midway in a frequent trip I take, and there may not be a CHAdeMO station available in between.

We have been thr' this before. A lot of us on the west coast will not buy the 40 kWh S because of lack of QC. Considering more than 80% of Leaf buyers bought SL because of QC, I can assure you we all think QC is important.

Whenever I talk to non-ev enthusiasts about Leaf, the whole tone changes once I mention QC. It is a game changer. It is unfortunate that it is taking such a long time to get it going (I blame Ecotality), but things will change for the better.

 

[ahimberg]

a typo, but AutoWeek reporting has the battery at 34kWh.. http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120406/VIDEONEWS/120409870 & http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120405/NEWYORK/120409917 (and duplicated at msn autos).

 

[stopcrazypp]

We have been thr' this before. A lot of us on the west coast will not buy the 40 kWh S because of lack of QC. Considering more than 80% of Leaf buyers bought SL because of QC, I can assure you we all think QC is important.

Whenever I talk to non-ev enthusiasts about Leaf, the whole tone changes once I mention QC. It is a game changer. It is unfortunate that it is taking such a long time to get it going (I blame Ecotality), but things will change for the better.

There you are choosing between QC or no QC (as an option), with no difference in range. The decision is simple there (just choose the QC!). The issue is different if you are choosing between QC vs 50% more range.

I'm just saying, if the LE doesn't provide some kind of significant range advantage over the Leaf, I predict it will likely flop. The Leaf has QC too, so that is not an advantage over the Leaf. The LE doesn't provide any sort of utility advantage over the Leaf (besides from slightly more power). I find it hard to believe anyone felt anything but disappointment when the specs was announced (and I bet most people are hoping for them to change for the better by production time).

And as you mention, even in the west coast (where we have the most installed and planned EV infrastructure by far, esp. here in CA), you can't depend on a CHAdeMO station being available (as in ready for you to charge without waiting). Even a reliable unified system to check availability would help, but that is non-existent (Nissan's solution has proven unreliable).

 

[TRON]

Well there are many promises in the world, many concept cars, but the only ones who really pushes the 100% electric theme are:
1) Tesla
2) Renault - just sold 15.000 EV-Kangoos
3) Mitsubishi
Mercedes for instance has like Volkswagen ready and tested cars, but they don't sell it till now ...
... you know who are the main shareholders of car manufacturers ...
Strategy: "better sell a less gas in hybrids than no gas"
This concept car game is only to gain time giving the mankind the feeling of "green" compnies, but in fact they don't invest to the technology.
One Mercedes developer whistle-blowed to me that Mercedes in 2011 had only one electric test car - for all developers and evens of the whole world !
Renault is developing cars for the city, in my eyes ok for many people's use.
But I believe only in Tesla, they are making facts and cars, which you can buy and really use for everyday driving - also long distance, like my 10.000 km trip last year.
And I will proove it again with the first electric around the world race: the first around the world electric car race - 80 electric days - world round trip starting on May 1st 2012 in Barcelona, crossing US, China, Russia and Europe

 

[TEG]

Nice gallery here:

Infiniti LE Concept: Photo Gallery - KickingTires

Notice the range gauge is showing 63% full, yet 75 miles remaining.

Suggestive of pack larger than LEAF?
Maybe they don't want to announce real pack size and range until the car is ready for sale?

 

[herbvdh]

I was at the New York show Saturday walked over to look at this car specifically. When they gave their presentation I heard the 100 mile range statement left for last and just about everybody walked off. Lets see no price given at all and 100 miles. Tesla $49,900 and a 160 mile range. IMO Infiniti LE is a Leaf on steroids.
Will add they had the Delorean Electric, the Mitsubishi i, BMW never even looked too crowded.

 

[spatterso911]

Nice gallery here:

Infiniti LE Concept: Photo Gallery - KickingTires

Notice the range gauge is showing 63% full, yet 75 miles remaining.

Suggestive of pack larger than LEAF?
Maybe they don't want to announce real pack size and range until the car is ready for sale?

Yeah, saw that and calculated about 120 mi range on a full battery.

 

[dpeilow]

There was speculation on other sites that it's either 'shopped or they are using that super optimistic measurement cycle.

 

[EVNow]

2) Renault - just sold 15.000 EV-Kangoos
…
This concept car game is only to gain time giving the mankind the feeling of "green" compnies, but in fact they don't invest to the technology.

Not sure whether you know Renault/Nissan are sister companies with the same CEO and cross ownership. Nissan has been slightly ahead of Renault on EVs - they developed the battery & ofcourse Leaf came before dedicated Renault EV. Nissan owns Infiniti. Together Nissan / Renault are investing 5 Billion Euros on EVs.

So, no - Infiniti LE isn't a for green washing.

 

[mklcolvin]

Woah. I think that all of us assumed that it was the same battery as the Leaf's, but this looks like a new addition of a nickel manganese cobalt oxide cathode instead of the standard Li-ion. They're targeting a range of 130-140 miles, as these new generation of batteries are claimed to have twice the capacity as their original battery at the same cost. If it weren't for that b***-ugly grille, this might provide some competition to the 40 kWh Model S.

http://insideevs.com/wink-wink-infi...n-leaf-built-in-the-usa-and-coming-late-2013/

 

[AnOutsider]

Do we know pricing on the LE yet? If the 130-140 is EPA and they come in at 45kish or so, then yeah, base S look out.

 

[mklcolvin]

I'm guessing that's the range, considering that the LE seems to be a much smaller car than the Model S.

 

[dpeilow]

I still don't see any substantiation for this 'real world120-130 miles' claim.

 

[TEG]

Woah. I think that all of us assumed that it was the same battery as the Leaf's, but this looks like a new addition of a nickel manganese cobalt oxide cathode instead of the standard Li-ion. They're targeting a range of 130-140 miles, as these new generation of batteries are claimed to have twice the capacity as their original battery at the same cost...

One thought that has been crossing my mind is that comments about "same battery as the LEAF" could mean that future LEAF models could get this new upgraded battery.
From what I can tell, Nissan is projecting higher LEAF sales numbers in coming years, and that could make sense if they got more range at the same price.

 

[VolkerP]

As was discussed in the Volt thread, upping the range (by upping battery capacity or other improvements) of an existing EV and keeping the price the same is an unbeatable pro EV argument.

 

[vfx]

Saw this playing at Siggraph

 

[brianman]

@vfx - What a nice, spacious garage. I think it's bigger than the lot that my house is on.