Ingenext Boost Modules [aftermarket]

[lotusland]

Bricking comes in many forms. For anything that is installed by a third-party, Tesla has no obligation to enable it or keep it working. If Tesla can change their code so that the device stops working, or better yet, stops the car from working, that is what they should do. They don't need to brick the car just beacuse it has a device, just change to code so that an installed device bricks the car. I doubt they would lose a legal battle. In fact, speaking of legal battles, if there is even a whiff of reverse-engineering involved here, I believe Tesla will be the first to file suit

 

[SammichLover]

If the video is to be believed, their Stage 2 product walked a Model 3 Performance. If charge on the batteries was similar, the Stage 2 is significantly more powerful than Tesla's offering. It wasn't even close.

Watch the video more closely, the claim was equal acceleration to the P. Rich was explicit about this. There are plenty of very solid reasons you shouldn't take the "walk" as literally Stage 2 enabling better than Performance.

They would entering dangerous legal waters to "brick" owners cars that do this, and would likely lose. They are well within their rights to deny warranty, service and supercharging (at least on their infrastructure) to such vehicles, though. These upgrades will be great for salvage vehicles, which Tesla has committed to neutering...

Legal waters on this are murky and dangerous for them, to be sure, but I think the bigger issue for them is the political issues looking forward and doing something that causes the legal waters to be a lot less murky. Tesla already walks on the edge of consumer protection issues, they'd be wise not to poke that bear too hard.

 

[Knightshade]

If the video is to be believed, their Stage 2 product walked a Model 3 Performance. If charge on the batteries was similar, the Stage 2 is significantly more powerful than Tesla's offering. It wasn't even close.

And yet- when they actually measure the modded car with a Draggy- the times are mostly slower than a real P.

And the only advertise it as "equal" to P

Which makes those race results seem pretty dubious unless they had done other non-mentioned stuff like running the 2 cars with vastly different SoC or something.

 

[ElectricIAC]

And yet- when they actually measure the modded car with a Draggy- the times are mostly slower than a real P.

And the only advertise it as "equal" to P

Which makes those race results seem pretty dubious unless they had done other non-mentioned stuff like running the 2 cars with vastly different SoC or something.

That also seemed odd to me. As if they showed “verified” results that their performance was better than a *Perfornance* it would draw the ire of Tesla.

Ball is in their court now. Throw more power at us with “legit” cars or sit on their hands and pretend EG doesn’t exist as they’ve done in the past.

 

[Knightshade]

That also seemed odd to me. As if they showed “verified” results that their performance was better than a *Perfornance* it would draw the ire of Tesla.

Or...as if the race results were not-real-results hype to help sales, and the calibrated measurements were perfectly accurate reflections of the real results.... which seems more likely to me, since the L2 mod already cuts the car off from Tesla anyway so "ire" won't matter much.

 

[ElectricIAC]

So: #fakenews ?

Still waiting to see what they can do with cars that left the factory as P's.
Even if it's just more customization and or comprehensive efficiency/handling modes that can be run in normal conditions (not track mode)

 

[SammichLover]

So: #fakenews ?

No, just people with poor listening skills and willingness to be subservient to their wishful thinking.

 

[TMThree]

Unless you pull the SIM from the car, any time you mod the vehicle and accelerate hard, that info is relayed to Tesla and they know the horsepower being generated.

Will be very easy to identify which vehicles are running the hack and void warranties.

 

[SammichLover]

Unless you pull the SIM from the car, any time you mod the vehicle and accelerate hard, that info is relayed to Tesla and they know the horsepower being generated.

Will be very easy to identify which vehicles are running the hack and void warranties.

How much does the car currently actually report back to HQ with the "opt out" set to no reporting? Has anyone checked that?

P.S. It isn't just the SIM. To be completely sure you'd need to make sure you didn't connect with Internet connected Wifi either, I think?

 

[Knightshade]

So: #fakenews ?

Still waiting to see what they can do with cars that left the factory as P's.
Even if it's just more customization and or comprehensive efficiency/handling modes that can be run in normal conditions (not track mode)

Depends what you mean by fake.

The draggy data he showed is very likely accurate... and thus, unless they were running their P with much lower SoC than the "modded to match a P" car, the race results....might be less accurate.

It's honestly a really weird video, in that they explicitly SAY "this makes the car as fast as a P" but then all the "testing" they show is either significantly faster (the race videos) then a real P...or significantly slower (the draggy data).


We probably won't know for sure either way until someone objective actually gets the mod done and does real calibrated measurements

Unless you pull the SIM from the car, any time you mod the vehicle and accelerate hard, that info is relayed to Tesla and they know the horsepower being generated.

Will be very easy to identify which vehicles are running the hack and void warranties.

So there's 2 different issues....


For the stage 2 folks- they can't get warranty service anyway really. The car will be hacked, and running an old version of SW, and cut off from talking to Tesla. Tesla isn't gonna work on that car to begin with- since things like checking logs remotely and putting it on the latest firmware are among the things you can't do that are part of Teslas normal repair process.

For stage 1 folks, yeah it'd be trivial for Tesla to have the car report back to them someone is doing this- since the car is still "online" as far as Tesla is concerned.... Or even add code that says "If car operates outside of parameters, go to limp mode and schedule service as clearly there's something wrong with the motor controller or something related"

Now if they actually do something about it remains an open-ended question at the moment- until it's answered I think it's not worth saving $900 buying this mod instead of the "real" boost mod from Tesla.

 

[ra88it]

No, not at all. I'm simply saying that, if any idiot can plug in a dongle and get the equivalent of "P" performance, there will be a limited market for it directly from Tesla. I suppose they will probably just make the hardware less adaptable, so that the cost of an aftermarket upgrade is higher or impossible.

The good news is that I think it will be hard to craft a business model around selling boost dongles. Someone is probably already reverse-engineering this one and will then offer it at half the price, and so on, and so on.

You May want to look into cobbtuning before speaking more. You sound very ‘get off my lawn’.

 

[lotusland]

I'm pretty familiar with the tuning world as my previous car was an Elise. There's a pretty big difference between tuning various ICE parameters in an ECU and sticking in a dongle that yells "Hey I'm a P!". Hopefully in future models Tesla will make it much harder for third-parties to modify the car, either by forcing motor / battery swap-outs or encrypting things beyond a hack. The 980/990 thing seems to be a minor step in that direction. And you are welcome on my lawn anytime.

 

[Perscitus]

For the record, I have absolutely nothing to do with this, and I don't recommend it. It's appears it's these guys: Groupe Simon AndréThere are a lot of reasons why, but the #1 is; You void your warranty. If it smokes your inverter, you are on the hook for thousands.
Also, when Tesla sends down a software update and it bricks your car, then what are you going to do? To be safe with this, you'll have to permanently give up software updates. It's a crude hack, and it doesn't take into account that the early inverters were binned.

Agreed 100%. These software spoof and rigged hardware hacks are a multitude of bad waiting to happen.

There is a niche market for it, albeit small and not great to cater to, but with great profit margins and with zero assumed liability (by those selling this), the cya and payout potential is strong.

If this takes off (doubt more than a few dozen users globally try this) we will at least gain a bunch more wrecks to scavange for non-inverter, motor, drivetrain parts.

MASTER THREAD: "Acceleration Boost" option, discussion as to which models and how much quicker

 

[SammichLover]

I'm pretty familiar with the tuning world as my previous car was an Elise. There's a pretty big difference between tuning various ICE parameters in an ECU and sticking in a dongle that yells "Hey I'm a P!".

Yes.

Hopefully in future models Tesla will make it much harder for third-parties to modify the car, either by forcing motor / battery swap-outs or encrypting things beyond a hack.

Hell, no. Get off your lawn and back in the house. "Let's make sure to regress to making things as difficult as there were by putting in extra effort to remove inherent improvements" is pure luddite BS.

 

[lotusland]

OK guys, two "get off the lawns" and a "luddite", you guys can have this thread to yourselves.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Yes.

Hell, no. Get off your lawn and back in the house. "Let's make sure to regress to making things as difficult as there were by putting in extra effort to remove inherent improvements" is pure luddite BS.

This seems like it comes from the same place as sour grapes over a guy paying $140K for a P100D when just 3 years later you can get the same for $100K.

I paid a premium for my P3D over a 3LR knowing full well in a not so distant future the car will likely be better, faster, and cheaper. And that’s okay.

While these guys were figuring out how to make this work, I was enjoying my car. I got my money’s worth.

 

[nayr14]

And yet- when they actually measure the modded car with a Draggy- the times are mostly slower than a real P.

And the only advertise it as "equal" to P

Which makes those race results seem pretty dubious unless they had done other non-mentioned stuff like running the 2 cars with vastly different SoC or something.

They hit 3.27s with the Stage 2 on camera with Draggy, apparently without roll out, which Tesla quotes their vehicles at. The Stage 3 will likely be faster....

In the video it appears the Model 3 Performance is at 80-90% SOC when they film it, however it experienced significant performance loss compared to the AWD with Stage 2 showing 90%+. Don't we have output charts at SOC somewhere?

 

[MagnusMako]

Peak torque on the P3 doesn't start to drop off until after ~40 mph. Here's some dyno testing stating this from before the power increases. This YT video also tested SoC from 100% to 10% and the delta was -.58s in 0-60 at 10%. Keep in mind the AWD+ Stage 2 had a single driver, the P3 had two people, including Rich - whos a pretty big and tall guy. We need more tests with both of them to really see the differences.

 

[Knightshade]

They hit 3.27s with the Stage 2 on camera with Draggy, apparently without roll out, which Tesla quotes their vehicles at.

Tesla quotes 3.2... They hit 3.27 once. And 3.59 once. The average of all runs was 3.42.

The "real" P having a passenger certainly didn't help- though I'd be a bit surprised if that alone caused as dramatic a difference as the video showed.

 

[nayr14]

Tesla quotes 3.2... They hit 3.27 once. And 3.59 once. The average of all runs was 3.42.

The "real" P having a passenger certainly didn't help- though I'd be a bit surprised if that alone caused as dramatic a difference as the video showed.

0-60 depends on many factors, including SoC, battery temperature, tire grip, incline, etc. Tesla's 0-60 quote is with 1 foot of rollout, so a true 0-60 will often be a few tenths of a second less than 3.2s.