Initial 75 kwh? Don't think so.

[Booga]

A 70 kWh might not get the magic 300 miles range... that would be a mistake.

I bet a rough estimate of 275-325 will be what people like me are targeting. I don't need it to be exactly 300.

There are a few reasons why:
1. It anticipates some battery degradation over time and above and beyond the warranty.
2. I live in the midwest where weather can deteriorate sharply (freezing) and require more heating power.
3. I, like a growing share of Tesla buyers, won't have access to nightly charging so I need the 80% charge to meet my usual driving needs with a once-weekly charge. 300 miles of stated range gives me access to 160-240 miles of routine driving depending on the time of year. (below freezing weather in the midwest will increase power needs)
4. It makes highway driving much easier allowing me to get faster charging rates, make fewer stops along my route, and enjoy greater travel freedom generally.

If I only had a 235 mile range to begin with, then I would be stuck with 188 miles of range at an 80% charge level. The same level with a 300 capacity provide 240 miles of range. That 50 mile difference makes a big difference to someone like me who wants to charge once a week during a normal week.

 

[JeffK]

I bet a rough estimate of 275-325 will be what people like me are targeting. I don't need it to be exactly 300.

There are a few reasons why:
1. It anticipates some battery degradation over time and above and beyond the warranty.
2. I live in the midwest where weather can deteriorate sharply (freezing) and require more heating power.
3. I, like a growing share of Tesla buyers, won't have access to nightly charging so I need the 80% charge to meet my usual driving needs with a once-weekly charge. 300 miles of stated range gives me access to 160-240 miles of routine driving depending on the time of year. (below freezing weather in the midwest will increase power needs)
4. It makes highway driving much easier allowing me to get faster charging rates, make fewer stops along my route, and enjoy greater travel freedom generally.

If I only had a 235 mile range to begin with, then I would be stuck with 188 miles of range at an 80% charge level. The same level with a 300 capacity provide 240 miles of range. That 50 mile difference makes a big difference to someone like me who wants to charge once a week during a normal week.

It's more of a feel good number you know bragging rights and such. It's basically a message to other manufacturers that 300 miles range is the new 200, it's the thing to beat.

In addition, we already know other manufacturers are targeting 300 miles of range for 2020.

 

[Mergoscia]

"There are a lot of people (myself included) that want the max range" ProphetM said.
I am one of them. But before Elon last said 75 was the max, he left somewhat higher open, by saying earlier 100 was not possible.
Therefore I was counting on 85 as max, as well because 85 is the serious beginning in model S. So models wouldn't overlap.
I am a reservationholder, but one who lives in Europe. By the time, in over a year or one and half, I can order my car I hope 85 will be one of the options.
Cause 75 batterypack is too small for fast reactions needed in upcoming accidents. The 3 will weigh around 2000 kg or 4409lb 3.929600oz . That's heavy for a car of that size. So smooth and fast handling will be of an issue.

 

[JeffK]

"There are a lot of people (myself included) that want the max range" ProphetM said.
I am one of them. But before Elon last said 75 was the max, he left somewhat higher open, by saying earlier 100 was not possible.
Therefore I was counting on 85 as max, as well because 85 is the serious beginning in model S. So models wouldn't overlap.
I am a reservationholder, but one who lives in Europe. By the time, in over a year or one and half, I can order my car I hope 85 will be one of the options.
Cause 75 batterypack is too small for fast reactions needed in upcoming accidents. The 3 will weigh around 2000 kg or 4409lb 3.929600oz . That's heavy for a car of that size. So smooth and fast handling will be of an issue.

No.

 

[JeffK]

Haha, I should clarify I guess.

If 75 kWh is the max then it will likely still be that by the time you get your car.
The acceleration will be more than enough and it will not weigh nearly as much as you think.

 

[Mergoscia]

If there's no 75kWh, it's for one of two reasons:
(1) they haven't yet reached the density Elon Musk's talking about.
(2) they're having problems making enough cells
Otherwise, it makes no sense not to sell the 75kWh given that it'd have more range (more than the Bolt), and charge 75/55 = 1.(36)r times as fast as the 55kWh (assuming the smaller size is 55kWh), making the car much better. It's especially true since they can make use of the tax credit to upsell capacity to buyers who might otherwise just buy the 55kWh.

Who is talking 70 will be max? Somebody who was guessing and took a gossip for truth!
Now in the timeframe of a few days everybody is talking 70.
Don't give Elon and Tesla the change to downgrade again and again!!!!!!!!

 

[Mergoscia]

Haha, I should clarify I guess.

If 75 kWh is the max then it will likely still be that by the time you get your car.
The acceleration will be more than enough and it will not weigh nearly as much as you think.

I wasn't refering to normal acceleration from 0 to 60 or 60 to whatever. I was refering to special circumstances when you want to avoid an accident. In my life I never had an (serious) accident, nor I caused a situation. But that had all to do with quick handling my superlight bike and car. As well....when I drive.....I drive and pay attention every (tenth of a) second. You don't need to drive a Formula one car tho get an serious accident. So I was lucky I escasped four accidents, because of nutheads not paying any attention to traffic.
I don't know when I got the information or do have the link to a statement about weight. But Tesla/ Elon at some point did mentioned the car is 25 % smaller, but the weight of the 3 will not be 25% less, in fact just around 150 to 200 kg lighter then the S.

 

[JeffK]

I wasn't refering to normal acceleration from 0 to 60 or 60 to whatever. I was refering to special circumstances when you want to avoid an accident.
I don't know when I got the information or do have the link to a statement about weight. But Tesla/ Elon at some point did mentioned the car is 25 % smaller, but the weight of the 3 will not be 25% less, in fact just around 150 to 200 kg lighter then the S.

Elon explicitly mentioned the Model 3 is 20% lighter than Model S

Q4 2015 call:

Yeah, I think the way to think of the customers is really that the Model 3, being a sedan, is about 20% lighter than – and actually quite a bit less complex to manufacture, than the Model S.

 

[dsvick]

Cause 75 batterypack is too small for fast reactions needed in upcoming accidents. The 3 will weigh around 2000 kg or 4409lb 3.929600oz . That's heavy for a car of that size. So smooth and fast handling will be of an issue.

I'd be willing to bet that more accidents are prevented by good brakes and by paying attention than by a cars ability to accelerate from 0 - 60 a second or two faster than another car. In fact, I bet more accidents are caused by just that acceleration than are prevented.

 

[Mergoscia]

I'd be willing to bet that more accidents are prevented by good brakes and by paying attention than by a cars ability to accelerate from 0 - 60 a second or two faster than another car. In fact, I bet more accidents are caused by just that acceleration than are prevented.

If you read my post about it I did write specificly that acceleration from 0 to 60 or 60 to whatever is not in question. But you are right. If someone accelerate brainless, then accidents can happen.
However there are situations that if you just brake accidents are to happen cause the cars or bikes are to close to eachother. When you can peddle full and turn the car slightly you can run away from an accident bound to happen or make it less severe......... Those situations I am talking about. It can save your life. That happened to me four times. Ever since this criteria I bring along with my desicion to buy a car or a bike.

 

[Mergoscia]

Elon explicitly mentioned the Model 3 is 20% lighter than Model S

Q4 2015 call:

What I heard/ saw was definitely less then a year ago.

 

[JeffK]

What I heard/ saw was definately less then a year ago.

If you can find it, let us know, that'd be very interesting especially as much of the cost is in the weight of materials used.

 

[Runt8]

There are situations that if you just brake accidents are to happen cause the cars or bikes are to close to eachother. When you can peddle full and turn the car slightly you can run away from an accident bound to happen........ Those situations I am talking about. It can save your life. That happened to me four times. Ever since this criteria I bring along with my desicion to buy a car or a bike.

Seems premature at this point to say that a 75kWh battery won't be fast enough, but an 85kWh one will be. At least wait until we actually have a chance to drive one...

 

[JeffK]

He later clarified and was meaning maneuverability instead of acceleration.

The alpha models seemed pretty agile to me.

 

[WileyTheMan]

Offering is not the same as building. I still think they will offer all options at start, but some configuration will be build later.

I hope they do, but I fear they will not in order to encourage reservation holders to buy now instead of waiting for other options.

 

[S3XY]

I hope they do, but I fear they will not in order to encourage reservation holders to buy now instead of waiting for other options.

They really don't have a reason to do that. The queue is so long that they will be building as many as they possibly can for at least the next 18 months. Anyone waiting for certain options will just have their car built later in the queue. So it's just shuffling the cards, not waiting for more cards to be dealt.

 

[BAven8068]

They really don't have a reason to do that. The queue is so long that they will be building as many as they possibly can for at least the next 18 months. Anyone waiting for certain options will just have their car built later in the queue. So it's just shuffling the cards, not waiting for more cards to be dealt.

I agree. Not showing all available options when they start allowing orders would cause some to be impatient and possibly cancel orders. Locking in as many people with actual "hard" orders with assigned VINs will keep people around.

Another by product of this is it will allow Tesla to see what demand is for certain battery sizes and options so that they can plan the ramp up accordingly. Not asking thier reservations holder what they want would be depriving them of valuable information for future production plans.

 

[JeffK]

Another by product of this is it will allow Tesla to see what demand is for certain battery sizes and options so that they can plan the ramp up accordingly. Not asking thier reservations holder what they want would be depriving them of valuable information for future production plans.

This is why I'm hoping there's strong demand for AWD so that they try to focus on it sooner rather than later.

 

[Mergoscia]

He later clarified and was meaning maneuverability instead of acceleration.

The alpha models seemed pretty agile to me.

What I really meant was the combination of maneuverability and acceleration in a split second while you are driving, when danger is coming and immediate action is required. 85 is stronger and I had a testdrive in a model S P85D. The S nearly could do the required maneuverability and acceleration, but not quite. The S was too heavy for the strenght of the batterypack. I think the M3 P85D will just be able to do the trick. That's why the 85 for me. The 75 is too weak for the trick.

 

[Mergoscia]

This is why I'm hoping there's strong demand for AWD so that they try to focus on it sooner rather than later.

@BAven8068 and JeffK, Both of you are right. For the same reason and for safety-issues I am pressing for a M3 P85D.