Thomas Edison
Active Member
I just texted Elon, I'll let everyone know what he says.
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I totally agree with everyone who doesn't think it makes sense. From a production simplicity standpoint, it would make sense for the next variant to be a step-wise change to SR w/ PUP or LR w/o PUP. It seems like SR w/ PUP would be the easiest change; in either case, it would also be better profit margins for them.
That being said, its not what I've been hearing. My best guess is, as others have said, they want to avoid backlash from a perceived "bait and switch" and/or they want to give people on the lower end an opportunity at the full tax credit. Also, producing the true base model $35K SR w/o PUP car along with nicer LR w/ PUP would give a larger group of people an option to choose from while the tax credit is still available.
That being said, its not what I've been hearing. My best guess is, as others have said, they want to avoid backlash from a perceived "bait and switch" and/or they want to give people on the lower end an opportunity at the full tax credit. Also, producing the true base model $35K SR w/o PUP car along with nicer LR w/ PUP would give a larger group of people an option to choose from while the tax credit is still available.
Perhaps all true, but just KNOW that current sales folks don't know squat, unless they report directly to Elon. As a public company that is under extreme financial review and analysis, no one -- I mean, no one -- has authority to pronounce this kinda stuff prior to a release from HQ. The rest is just idle staff speculation.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
The idea of the $7500 tax credit is to open EVs up to a wider audience, not make it easier to option up a vehicle they were already going to purchase.
It seems within the spirit of the legislation to allow those that want the cheapest available model to have a shot at the tax credit, IMHO.
It seems within the spirit of the legislation to allow those that want the cheapest available model to have a shot at the tax credit, IMHO.
works for me! $35k Model 3 is exactly what I need, and as soon as possible... wife almost forced us to pull the trigger on leasing an Acura RDX last weekend... me throwing a fit over not wanting to drive a V6 given what we know about climate change today was the only thing that kept us from going through with it. The salesperson seemed equally amused/annoyed 
@Bad Horse I completely agree with you. Seems like you could focus on keeping production easier and only change the battery size, or continue to make $$$ on the bigger battery and offer the base interior. While it does allow me to save more, it also put me at greater risk for losing a part of the tax credit (assuming it is still intact).
PS - @Bad Horse This is random, but I grew up in Overland Park.
Ha, small world. That's pretty cool. I grew up in Wichita and moved to the KC area after college. I've lived in OP since 2013.
While I agree with this in principle, it just seems like when you do a run of the car, just change which battery you are putting it, while I am sure they have some other more complicated parts of the manufacturing, I can't imagine if they are truly going for ease of production, that you would design the spot where the battery goes for the SR battery and LR battery that differently. Like, they should practically fit in the same area, or common areas, no differently.
All the interior changes seem to be much more complex, you're changing seats, center console, electrical hookups, dash, etc. And not only that, you are ultimately changing two targets, non premium interior and smaller battery, instead of just the 1 (battery). But not a line designer so what do I know.
ahagge
Member
From what others have commented, the Model 3 battery pack isn't designed for quick swapping (it's more integrated into the chassis), which is why I don't think it's an item that can be swapped at delivery time. From everything I've read, the pack is identical (externally) between the two - just fewer modules in the SR pack - and a smaller inverter.
I think such a situation would last for a month or two at most.
Model 3 cash flow economics is quite different from Model S. Volume is just as (or even more) important than the type of Model being offered. If the key was making the most expensive models first, Tesla would be delivering only dual engine, large battery, ... models for now.
Adding just a bare bones SR M3 actually makes a lot of sense. Tesla will likely run entire shift making a single configuration, changing configuration between shifts. Hours making a single type of car at a time.
I bet you the current M3 line is very unprofitable even making 500 cars/wk. It will likely start to be profitable at hundreds of cars/day. Ok, I pulled that out of my behind, but it makes sense.
I think M3 production will always involve large enough volumes large number of identical cars will be made for at least hours at a time. This will be particularly true with a 500k cars backlog (or even a 100-200k car backlog hopefully 12 months from now, including lots of new orders).
Model 3 cash flow economics is quite different from Model S. Volume is just as (or even more) important than the type of Model being offered. If the key was making the most expensive models first, Tesla would be delivering only dual engine, large battery, ... models for now.
Adding just a bare bones SR M3 actually makes a lot of sense. Tesla will likely run entire shift making a single configuration, changing configuration between shifts. Hours making a single type of car at a time.
I bet you the current M3 line is very unprofitable even making 500 cars/wk. It will likely start to be profitable at hundreds of cars/day. Ok, I pulled that out of my behind, but it makes sense.
I think M3 production will always involve large enough volumes large number of identical cars will be made for at least hours at a time. This will be particularly true with a 500k cars backlog (or even a 100-200k car backlog hopefully 12 months from now, including lots of new orders).
Volume is definitely more important than purely producing the most expensive car for the Model 3 ramp. I think everyone agrees that Tesla went for the combination of simplest and most profitable configuration to start with (LR w/ PUP). I just think that a move to the SR Model w/o PUP is a deviation from this. The next simplest and relatively more profitable configuration would probably be SR w/ PUP. Arguably, as @Bad Horse said, its likely quite a bit easier in production to change which battery is installed rather than the entire interior. I would imagine the exterior package of the battery is the same, just less modules.
There are only 4 modules in the battery and they have to keep the weigh distributed evenly. So the SR will still have 4 modules but with fewer cells in each module.
As has been said many times before the reason they need to deliver the SR w/o PUP next is so that they can fulfill their promise of delivering the Model 3 for $35k. Especially before the tax credit starts phasing out.
Tesla’s goal is to hit “full production” which is 5k / week initially (10k / week is with more lines that they don’t have). So remember they have supply agreements for all those interior parts too. They do not have an agreement for 5k PUP parts per week, because they don’t expect to have 100% of vehciles select that option.
If they have to build both interiors to hit 5k per week, having one line on LR + PUP and one line on SR + PUP makes the most sense to me.
Also note that the early SR sales will likely go to California where the favorable climate makes the base SR more appealing. That will probably also get them more employee sales, and capture the most extreme credit-dependent sales.
I just hope that those of us in the East and North won't have to wait long for the PUP (or alternative winter package) version. I'll defer if I can't get the full credit and hope my aging Prius will hold up for another 3 to 5 years.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Quite true.
We're deferring until we can get AWD, so I don't really expect to get much of the tax credit, if any. Our LEAF lease isn't up until Spring 2019 anyway. My wife is on the fence about the PuP package, as she's perfectly happy with the LEAF's cloth interior, and doesn't seem particularly motivated to spend the extra money. Oh well.
There are only two reasons I can think of for offering the $35K variant sooner: to show they delivered on that $ promise, and to attract more main stream (non-Tesla follower) buyers. Both of those would just serve the purpose of adding to an already year long queue... they're anti-selling, so it doesn't make sense to build $35K cars before $40K.
mejojo
Active Member
That's the one I want to go along with my S. I want to start my Tesla Network rental fleet while the rebate is on.
T34ME
Active Member
The question of what will be available with the SR option has been weighing on my mind, so I did the obvious.
I wrote the following email to Tesla customer service last Friday:
As soon as the SR battery is available, all current options will be available on all cars - SR/LR battery, PUP/standard interior, EAP/FSD or none, exterior color, and wheels. You will be able to pick and choose your options or you can select the base model with standard equipment for $35,000. They said customer service has not been told when the SR version would be available but hopefully by the end of Q1/18. I asked how the SR was going to be prioritized for delivery. They said they presumed it was going to be like the LR - employees first, then owners, then non-owners. BUT they encouraged me to select LR at this time and then put my configuration on hold when I get my invite because I would then jump to the top of the list when the SR is available. They also revealed that the vast majority of reservationists were selecting the LR version so the SR deliveries will go much more quickly.
They also said that , unfortunately, my Solar City status would NOT get me any kind of priority as an "owner." The priority only applies to Tesla cars.
There may be those on TMC who will say that you cannot believe anything customer service tells you, they will tell you any thing you want to hear. Please spare me and take your negativity elsewhere. I believe what this person told me. It is good news for me. On the two or three occasions I have talked to customer service in the last 2 years, everything they told me turned out to be true. I have had totally positive experiences with them. I can't wait to drive the FUTURE!
I wrote the following email to Tesla customer service last Friday:
- The buzz on the Internet this morning is that when the SR version is available, it WILL NOT be available with PUP, at least initially. This information comes from some of the sales staff at a store. PUP is important to me and if it is not available with the SR version right away, I would order the LR version sooner just to get the PUP. What’s up?
- I have had a Solar City PV system for about 3 years now. Will that give me any model 3 order priority for configuration? I am not a current Tesla owner.
As soon as the SR battery is available, all current options will be available on all cars - SR/LR battery, PUP/standard interior, EAP/FSD or none, exterior color, and wheels. You will be able to pick and choose your options or you can select the base model with standard equipment for $35,000. They said customer service has not been told when the SR version would be available but hopefully by the end of Q1/18. I asked how the SR was going to be prioritized for delivery. They said they presumed it was going to be like the LR - employees first, then owners, then non-owners. BUT they encouraged me to select LR at this time and then put my configuration on hold when I get my invite because I would then jump to the top of the list when the SR is available. They also revealed that the vast majority of reservationists were selecting the LR version so the SR deliveries will go much more quickly.
They also said that , unfortunately, my Solar City status would NOT get me any kind of priority as an "owner." The priority only applies to Tesla cars.
There may be those on TMC who will say that you cannot believe anything customer service tells you, they will tell you any thing you want to hear. Please spare me and take your negativity elsewhere. I believe what this person told me. It is good news for me. On the two or three occasions I have talked to customer service in the last 2 years, everything they told me turned out to be true. I have had totally positive experiences with them. I can't wait to drive the FUTURE!
ElecFan
Member
@T34ME sounds logical to me. It seems the SR is one of the last variants Tesla introduces after PUP/EAP. Q1 '18 seems optimistic in that case. Great idea to mail them and nice that Tesla called you back. I think you'll be allright regarding the tax credit when you put your configuration on hold.
T34ME
Active Member
The tax credit is not a deal breaker for me since I am a 1%er!
(yeah, and cotton grows at the North Pole too) But, at my age, getting the car I want and need is more important than the tax credit.Similar threads
