Initial trailer pulling report - 90D and Airstream 22ft Bambi Sport

[Canuck]

Airstream needs to partner up with Tesla to introduce a trailer with an intregrated 100+ battery in the trailer to double up power in the Tesla.

It doesn't work that way for a number of reasons. I doubt the X could pull all that extra weight but even if it could it would not double the range after accounting for the additional weight. You are only driving with a 100% charge for so long. After that, you're hauling around a lot of dead weight until you recharge.

 

[JimVandegriff]

We will be bidding adieu to Kansas tomorrow, heading for Oklahoma. The last day was interesting, as we spent it in Pratt, KS at an RV park/motel which had lots of more permanent residents, a number of whom were employed in the windmill industry. Illijana spent time with them discussing wind power and Tesla. We drove to Wichita, KS this morning to the Wichita supercharger. It was next to an Applebees restaurant where we had lunch before proceeding to Wellington, KS. We did find out that Kansas law says wait staff can be paid $2.13 an hour, no federal minimum wage, and basically work for tips. Yuck! Total mileage today, 110.6 miles at 609 Wh/mile at 55 mph.
The Wichita supercharger was a new design for me, and it was relatively easy to pull in the trailer, block three spaces and leave three open. We met a Tesla S owner and his friend, and showed off the Airstream to them. Fun interaction.
Since we left home in mid-August we have travelled 3412 miles with our Airstream-TeslaX combo. We have enjoyed the beauty and agricultural fecundity (there is lots of ag here!) of Kansas.

 

[DaveT]

Hi Jim, I'm advidly following your posts since I'm also contemplating of a Model X/trailer combo.

Can you share how often you supercharge vs charging at RV park facilities?

Have you ever had to unhitch to supercharge and if so, how long does the hitching and unhitchjng process take?

What kind of hitch are you using?

Does your Airstream have a generator? How do you power the AC?

Are you ever dry docking or are you usually going to RV parks to connect to power/water?

How much planning is involved for each day of travel?

 

[JimVandegriff]

Hi Jim, I'm advidly following your posts since I'm also contemplating of a Model X/trailer combo.

Can you share how often you supercharge vs charging at RV park facilities?

Have you ever had to unhitch to supercharge and if so, how long does the hitching and unhitchjng process take?

What kind of hitch are you using?

Does your Airstream have a generator? How do you power the AC?

Are you ever dry docking or are you usually going to RV parks to connect to power/water?

How much planning is involved for each day of travel?

Hi from Chickasha, Oklahoma.
We primarily charge at RV parks, DaveT. Today, we travelled from an RV park in Guthrie, OK fully charged and on back roads to get a better sense of the land ("and the land we belong to is grand" from the musical Oklahoma) and travelled to another RV park in Chickasha. When we leave here though, we will be back on the interstates traveling to the Texas panhandle, New Mexico, Nevada, and Utah. We will be using the superchargers extensively, probably almost daily, as well as RV chargers at the stopovers.
We try to avoid unhitching at the superchargers, but have done so on occasion. My wife's recollection is that it took about 15-20 minutes to unhitch and about 15 minutes to hitch up again.
We are using an Equalizer hitch. It provides excellent sway control.
We do not have a generator. We power the AC with the 30 amp electrical connector when we stop at RV parks. We don't use the AC much since the trailer has excellent air flow through the windows and the Fantastic fan exhaust fan.
We have dry camped on occasion without problems. We got two 100 watt solar panels installed on the roof of the trailer and they keep the battery topped up when not plugged in. I do use a cpap machine at night, and this requires "shore power" (i.e. a power source besides the battery), so we primarily stick to sites with power.
We have taken to requesting 50 amp sites, so that I can charge the car (usually dialed down to 30 amps using the 14-50 Tesla adapter in the 50 amp plug, and using the 30 amp plug which is usually present in 50 amp sites for plugging in the trailer. The 30 amp plug doesn't draw much power (less than 15 amps) unless running the AC. I'm pretty careful at RV parks to not pull more than 50 amps total.
The folks who did the TeslaXCanada trip with their Alto trailer are planning a cross USA trip soon, and they will have more info.
There is a lot of planning that goes into each day's activities. We usually use the Teslarati app for charger locations, and combine that with using the Allstays camping and RV app to find RV parks and their reviews. We also use the KOA app for some some sites and reservations, as well as the PlugShare app for other chargers. We make reservations at RV parks the day prior to arriving there so we plan specific routes for the next day taking into account superchargers, terrain, predicted weather, and RV park sites. We also usually plan a week at a time in general, then do the specifics on a daily basis.
We will be here in Chickasha (near Oklahoma City) for 4 days visiting relatives, then a relatively quick trip across Oklahoma, Texas, and New Mexico. We are trying to figure out how to get to Chaco Canyon while in New Mexico. That is it from here.
What kind of trailer are you thinking about, DaveT?

 

[ecarfan]

The folks who did the TeslaXCanada trip with their Alto trailer are planning a cross USA trip soon

I just sent that couple a message through their website asking when they are going to do their trans-US trip and if they would be passing through the SF Bay Area, as I would like to meet them.

 

[DaveT]

Hi from Chickasha, Oklahoma.
We primarily charge at RV parks, DaveT. Today, we travelled from an RV park in Guthrie, OK fully charged and on back roads to get a better sense of the land ("and the land we belong to is grand" from the musical Oklahoma) and travelled to another RV park in Chickasha. When we leave here though, we will be back on the interstates traveling to the Texas panhandle, New Mexico, Nevada, and Utah. We will be using the superchargers extensively, probably almost daily, as well as RV chargers at the stopovers.
We try to avoid unhitching at the superchargers, but have done so on occasion. My wife's recollection is that it took about 15-20 minutes to unhitch and about 15 minutes to hitch up again.
We are using an Equalizer hitch. It provides excellent sway control.
We do not have a generator. We power the AC with the 30 amp electrical connector when we stop at RV parks. We don't use the AC much since the trailer has excellent air flow through the windows and the Fantastic fan exhaust fan.
We have dry camped on occasion without problems. We got two 100 watt solar panels installed on the roof of the trailer and they keep the battery topped up when not plugged in. I do use a cpap machine at night, and this requires "shore power" (i.e. a power source besides the battery), so we primarily stick to sites with power.
We have taken to requesting 50 amp sites, so that I can charge the car (usually dialed down to 30 amps using the 14-50 Tesla adapter in the 50 amp plug, and using the 30 amp plug which is usually present in 50 amp sites for plugging in the trailer. The 30 amp plug doesn't draw much power (less than 15 amps) unless running the AC. I'm pretty careful at RV parks to not pull more than 50 amps total.
The folks who did the TeslaXCanada trip with their Alto trailer are planning a cross USA trip soon, and they will have more info.
There is a lot of planning that goes into each day's activities. We usually use the Teslarati app for charger locations, and combine that with using the Allstays camping and RV app to find RV parks and their reviews. We also use the KOA app for some some sites and reservations, as well as the PlugShare app for other chargers. We make reservations at RV parks the day prior to arriving there so we plan specific routes for the next day taking into account superchargers, terrain, predicted weather, and RV park sites. We also usually plan a week at a time in general, then do the specifics on a daily basis.
We will be here in Chickasha (near Oklahoma City) for 4 days visiting relatives, then a relatively quick trip across Oklahoma, Texas, and New Mexico. We are trying to figure out how to get to Chaco Canyon while in New Mexico. That is it from here.
What kind of trailer are you thinking about, DaveT?

Hi Jim, thanks for the answers! Hope you're trip is going well.

For me, I would ideally like to use a Model X (especially for Autopilot) and a trailer. I was looking into an Airstream or a Hymer Eriba. However, the limited range while towing is especially concerning to me. It appears that towing a trailer cuts the Model X in range by half (is this accurate?). Or you can get somewhat more than half-range by going slower (ie., 55mph). But I think this might cause inconvenience. Especially since I'm not looking to stay at RV parks but would like to do a lot of dry docking in campgrounds and national parks. It would be me, my wife and our 2 year old son.

The other option for me would to just get an RV. I've also been looking into Class B/C RVs. Some of the Class B vans are really tight inside, but I like that it's small enough to go grab groceries in the city if needed. The Class Cs are nice but some I'm afraid would be too cumbersome. And of course, since I'd like to do a lot of dry docking there are limited options of running the AC off of batteries, which I would need to do to do a lot of dry docking.

I know there would be a lot of sacrifices with a Model X and a trailer, but I think some of that would be outweighed by using Autopilot. Have you been using Autopilot? How is it while towing?

Also, hitching and unhitching seems like it would be a drag if we were to use a lot of superchargers. I've looked into some that are quicker to hitch/unhitch, but it seems like everything has its pros/cons. I'd love to be able to hitch and unhitch in 5 minutes. Not sure if that's going to be possible though.

 

[ecarfan]

I know there would be a lot of sacrifices with a Model X and a trailer, but I think some of that would be outweighed by using Autopilot. Have you been using Autopilot?

My understanding is that when the car detects it is towing something, AP is not available. I assume that is because towing changes the handling dynamics so much that AP isn't safe, it is not yet capable of factoring in the handling differences when towing.

I believe that TACC is still available when towing. If I am wrong on that I'm sure someone will correct me.

 

[ccutrer]

My understanding is that when the car detects it is towing something, AP is not available. I assume that is because towing changes the handling dynamics so much that AP isn't safe, it is not yet capable of factoring in the handling differences when towing.

I believe that TACC is still available when towing. If I am wrong on that I'm sure someone will correct me.

You are correct on both counts. You can overrride it and disable trailer mode while driving (presumably if it's a bike rack or some other accessory with lights that it is detecting), but that would also turn off other software features (I think things like sway control and a different power curve) that you probably want while towing. And I don't think I would trust autopilot while towing anyway, at least not yet. If you tow much, especially with more than token loads, the handling dynamics are very different, and I'm sure Autopilot just couldn't deal with it (think how it is right now without a trailer on a narrow, curvy mountain road. I think that's how it would behave on a nice flat open interstate while towing).

 

[ecarfan]

Thanks @ccutrer , I didn't realize that you can disable trailer mode while towing and this get AP available, but agree with you that would probably be unwise if you are towing something.

I think it is possible that eventually at some point in the future AP will be available while towing a trailer, but that is likely many years away.

 

[ccutrer]

Thanks @ccutrer , I didn't realize that you can disable trailer mode while towing and this get AP available, but agree with you that would probably be unwise if you are towing something.

I think it is possible that eventually at some point in the future AP will be available while towing a trailer, but that is likely many years away.

Yeah. I made a special point of trying it out last time I was towing. I usually only do small around town things like hauling furniture every once in a while, but was going to be mad if I put a luggage box on for a road trip and AP was locked out. I was very happy when I found that trailer mode is inferred, but not required (and vice versa if your lights aren't working or something - wife was kinda frustrated at that one because it is "sticky" if you explicitly turn it on). If memory serves, trailer mode also controls audible alerts from the real ultrasonic sensors -- I.e. It's not constantly beeping at you when there's a trailer back there when you're in reverse.

Yeah, I'm sure it's possible to get AP working with towing, it just hasn't been their focus. I also wonder how much the car needs to know about the trailer (and brake controller?). AP right now can make lots of assumptions about the dynamics of the vehicle, and being able to add any trailer on the back is a lot of variables.

 

[jackbowers]

Turning off trailer mode in order to turn on AP is not legal because it deactivates the trailer brake lights as well as the trailer brakes. As for trip planner, it does adjust for the trailer; my experience after a few hundred miles with the Bowlus Road Chief is that it does a pretty good job of projecting range, but underestimates power losses during uphill mountain climbs. At low speeds the X plus Bowlus - a total of almost 8,000 lbs - takes 10 extra miles of range per 1000' elevation gain, but it you are pulling 100kW on an uphill freeway climb it is more like 15 miles per 1000' due to I-squared-R power losses.

 

[DaveT]

Turning off trailer mode in order to turn on AP is not legal because it deactivates the trailer brake lights as well as the trailer brakes. As for trip planner, it does adjust for the trailer; my experience after a few hundred miles with the Bowlus Road Chief is that it does a pretty good job of projecting range, but underestimates power losses during uphill mountain climbs. At low speeds the X plus Bowlus - a total of almost 8,000 lbs - takes 10 extra miles of range per 1000' elevation gain, but it you are pulling 100kW on an uphill freeway climb it is more like 15 miles per 1000' due to I-squared-R power losses.

@jackbowers What kind of range are you getting with your Model X towing the Bowlus?

 

[ecarfan]

@jackbowers What kind of range are you getting with your Model X towing the Bowlus?

Dave, see Jack's thread at Test Report: Towing the Bowlus Road Chief

Here is what he posted, quote: "My main concern for this trip was towing range. While towing a trailer with the Model X is no picnic, things turned out better than I thought. The power draw on uphill mountain passes can be breathtaking at times, but you get full regen recovery on the descent (no braking was necessary even on 10% downhill grades), so the overall average is generally good enough to go 100 miles with much range anxiety (provided you start with at least 225 miles on the pack). Driving 55 mph on a flat course at 70 degrees F you can expect around 475 Wh/mile if there is no headwind, so with a fully charged 100 kWh pack it would be possible to go 150 miles under the right conditions. But it takes about 12 extra miles of range for each 1000' gain in elevation, so if your ending elevation is higher than your starting elevation the range can be significantly less."

Depending on one's perspective, towing the Bowlus Road Chief is either an entirely doable proposition or a nerve-wracking one requiring charging stops every 100 miles or so.

Personally I am only going to consider smaller and lighter trailers like the Safari Caravan Alto at just over 1,700 lbs dry weight. Of course I can't afford a Road Chief (which looks like an awesome trailer) so crossing it off my list is a foregone conclusion.

 

[jbcarioca]

Jim, thanks for your experimentation and posting your results. Since this effectively eliminates the use of Interstate highways at this speed, here's hoping for a future 150+ kWh pack and faster Supercharger in the future to make this practical.

The X towing seems the land equivalent of cross country in a 182RG. Both are quite adequate to the task, but require very frequent stops and lots of extra time.

 

[JimVandegriff]

Headwinds, heat, and windmills, oh my! We have been traveling across Oklahoma, the Texas Panhandle, and New Mexico over the last few days. One interesting aspect of the trip is the enormous number of huge windmills that are now generating electricity everywhere along I-40 (former Rt 66). We even began to try to figure out what a grouping of windmills should be called. My favorite is a "twirl" of windmills. The last several days have been extremely warm (25 degrees F over the average for this time of year.) This does lead to more A/C use in the car. It has also been extremely windy. One day we faced a headwind of 35 mph gusting to 45 or 50 mph. Our watt hour/mile that day was about 750 over the 102.5 miles. Today with much cooler temps and not very much wind, we did 224.4 miles, charged at two different New Mexico superchargers, and are charging again at our RV park. We did use A/C today, averaged 57 mph while driving, but did the last 90 miles at 50 mph because we gained 2000 feet in elevation overall (highest point was 7044 feet of elevation or over 2500 higher than our starting point.) Even at 50 mph we used 641 wh/m really solely due to elevation gain. Totals for the day -- 224.4 miles, 136.7 KWh used, 609 wh/m.
Our desires to visit Farmington, NM to get a guided tour to Chaco Canyon national monument, has been thwarted because of range concerns, and our inability to find charging between Albuquerque and Farmington. We will be back next spring to try to get there from the north.
The superchargers in Santa Rosa, NM, and Tucumcari, NM were both easy to find, and trailer friendly. This was in stark contrast to the supercharger in Amarillo, Texas which while easy for the trailer + X, was very difficult to find. Nav was of little help. Check out the Teslarati app if you need to find this charger.

 

[JimVandegriff]

We are in Grants, New Mexico after having travelled from Edgewood, NM (109.1 miles at 626 wh/m used) with a stop at the Albuquerque supercharger where we met with two model S' and got to block one in for a short time. We stayed around, of course, and got to have some good conversations with the S owners, one of whom had only had his S for 3 weeks. We were able to share tips about mileage estimation, and media use with 8.0.
We decided to spend an extra day in Grants so that we could go to visit the Acoma pueblo, and get a tour. The Sky City is the oldest continuously inhabited site in the Americas (since about 1100) and the Acoma are a matriarchal society known for their wonderful pottery. We did the informative tour of the pueblo, and the artists set up tables in the pueblo and sell pottery to the visitors. We thoroughly enjoyed the people we met and learned quite a bit about the Acoma culture and history. If you are ever in the area, we highly recommend a visit.
Tomorrow leads us into Arizona and the Petrified Forest after a stop at the Gallup, NM supercharger.

 

[JimVandegriff]

If it is Monday, this must be Lake Mead. We have spent several days traveling through Arizona and enjoying the gradual lowering in altitude. I've been experiencing a recurrence of bronchitis, so my wife has been doing most of the driving.
We did have one horrible supercharger experience relieved only by meeting some fun S owners in Flagstaff, Arizona. The superchargers are located in a very small lower parking lot of a hotel. One has to take a small, twisting road into the location, and the 4 superchargers don't allow an X with trailer to pull across them to charge. We don't really mind unhooking the trailer, but it was very difficult to bring the trailer into the parking lot to unhitch because there were so many cars in the lot, making the attempt to pull the trailer into a parking spot extremely difficult, as people continued to come into and also to exit the lot in their cars. We finally accomplished the backing into a parking spot and unhitching (and then charging), but we had to put orange cones out on six parking spots to keep people from parking in them, or else we would not have been able to hook up car and trailer and pull out of the lot. Add in the peevish reaction of a family who parked their ice vehicle in one of the supercharger slots ("well, we couldn't get passed you so we parked here") when there was a larger lot right next to the lower lot, and I felt a bit frustrated. I would suggest to Tesla that this lot be used as a design seminar in what not to do when designing supercharger locations.
Effects of elevation- We drove one stint of 119.3 miles from Williams to Kingman, AZ going from 6500 ft elevation to 3500 feet in that stretch and used an average of 380 wh/m, enormously below our average on level ground. We did go 50 mph during this stretch, but only used 45.3 Kw, and so could feasibly have gone 150 - 160 miles without recharging. Today we traveled from Chloride, AZ to Lake Mead, NV, only 61 miles but again used only 405 wh/m due to lowering elevation. We were greeted with lightning, thunder, and rain when getting here to Lake Mead, where we plan to spend several days.
We are planning to head to St. George, Utah, on our way to Cedar City, Utah (to see our daughter, and grandkids), before heading home to California.

 

[NJ Plugin]

Thanks for the reports Jim.

Hope your feeling better soon.

 

[EVCarGUy]

Your description of the Flagstaff SC brought flashbacks. Yeah, I remember that one.

You're never going to get your trailer anywhere near the SCs in St George without totally messing up the Starbucks drive-thru.

 

[hill]

If you haven't seen it already, the Edmunds long term test report on using the X to tow a trailer may be edifying...

Link is simply to edmunds now ... doesn't point to anything X.