Initiative 976

[RedMS]

Gonna leave this here. Courtesy of the same people who bash Eyeman for being sleazy:

PDC looking into I-976 mailers sent by city of Olympia

and this one just for fun:

https://q13fox.com/2019/10/07/fact-check-ads-against-30-car-tabs-raise-eyebrows/

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Gonna leave this here. Courtesy of the same people who bash Eyeman for being sleazy:

PDC looking into I-976 mailers sent by city of Olympia

and this one just for fun:

Fact check: Ads against $30 car tabs raise eyebrows

It's important that things like this are brought to peoples attention as the second one broke the law, and the first one was a misrepresentation.

Of course both of them are immaterial to the issue at hand. The second article doesn't dispute the fact that it will cost state and local governments more than 4 billion dollars in revenue over 6 years.

Meanwhile in Eyman land.

Firm told to pay $1 million after funneling money to Tim Eyman

So minor mistakes versus a huge mistake.

 

[PWlakewood]

You live in Lakewood and are commuting to Seattle for work every day? Sounds like you and your wife are doing it wrong.

Live in pierce county yes but we both took other jobs so I dont commute to Woodinville anymore and she doesnt commute to seattle anymore. We actually carpool now. She use to ride the train from Lakewood to Seattle daily and didnt care for it. Constant delays and train issues were frustrating. She did it though for over 6 years. We prefer to live out this way because our parents are aging and need us to be close. If we had our way we would leave Washington state immediately and live in a much warmer state (hawaii).

 

[ChrisH]

Yeah. If today is any indication of how well our tax dollars are going to be spent by ST I don’t want to fund it. 12 text alerts today indicating at least one sounder cancellation. Delays of 15-40 minutes for multiple other sounder runs. Terrible.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Yeah. If today is any indication of how well our tax dollars are going to be spent by ST I don’t want to fund it. 12 text alerts today indicating at least one sounder cancellation. Delays of 15-40 minutes for multiple other sounder runs. Terrible.

The problem with Sounder is it runs on train tracks owned by Burlington Northern Santa FE (BNSF). In fact I think it's even operated by BNSF. The only thing ST owns is the trains themselves, and the stations.

The fact that it runs on their train tracks means it can be delayed for a whole hosts of reasons completely outside of ST's control

It's especially bad north of Seattle where flooding tends to cause cancellations of both Sounder Trains, and Amtrak trains.

The biggest problem I have with Sounder is it barely every runs on the north end. But, the 510/512 buses are routinely overcrowded so there is definitely the demand.

As to BNSF I fail to understand why they're not able to take more of the freight traffic off of I5. It seems like 90% of the times I5 is closed or severely blocked is because of a semi-truck accident. When I drive to from Seattle to Portland it also seems like at least 50% of the traffic is semi-trucks going the entire way along I5.

 

[Araman0]

For what it’s worth, part of ST3 is going to track improvements and additional service on the Sounder to help prevent exactly that situation from happening.

If we don’t work to fix this and other transportation issues now when things are already bad then what? Will traffic magically improve on its own if we cut 30% (or in some municipalities 50%) of the entire transportation budget?

 

[ChrisH]

The spending is not being done efficiently and we are being gouged. It will also take too long and be obsolete, much like the construction near the Tacoma dome. I understand paying taxes is needed but it shouldn’t take 22 years to implement the work they say they will do

 

[alloverx]

Sounds Transit phases should be a 10 year plan with a hard 5 year review to adjust as needed.

 

[PWlakewood]

Yeah. If today is any indication of how well our tax dollars are going to be spent by ST I don’t want to fund it. 12 text alerts today indicating at least one sounder cancellation. Delays of 15-40 minutes for multiple other sounder runs. Terrible.

Lol. Yup I heard about those delays and I'm thankful my wife doesnt take the train anymore.

 

[ibdb]

Yeah. If today is any indication of how well our tax dollars are going to be spent by ST I don’t want to fund it. 12 text alerts today indicating at least one sounder cancellation. Delays of 15-40 minutes for multiple other sounder runs. Terrible.

Lol. Yup I heard about those delays and I'm thankful my wife doesnt take the train anymore.

Don't use today as an example. Today's issues in the South Sound all stem from a suicide by train. That's not a Sound Transit issue. That's a failure to fund mental health services issue. Sound Transit is running on the same tracks as the BNSF train involved in the incident because no one wanted to pay for a transit only line.

I get frustration over the RTA valuation schedule. The return to $30 tabs is a false promise that we can have everything we want without having to pay anything for it. Eyman is offering another overly simplistic solution to a complex problem, but since he doesn't have to deal with any of the consequences, he's free to make unrealistic promises and then blame someone else when things go awry. I've sat next to him to testify at state hearings. I've heard what he's said to some of his supporters when he thought no one was listening. Some of what I've heard him say was not complimentary to his targeted voters, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[ChrisH]

Don't use today as an example. Today's issues in the South Sound all stem from a suicide by train. That's not a Sound Transit issue. That's a failure to fund mental health services issue. Sound Transit is running on the same tracks as the BNSF train involved in the incident because no one wanted to pay for a transit only line.

I get frustration over the RTA valuation schedule. The return to $30 tabs is a false promise that we can have everything we want without having to pay anything for it. Eyman is offering another overly simplistic solution to a complex problem, but since he doesn't have to deal with any of the consequences, he's free to make unrealistic promises and then blame someone else when things go awry. I've sat next to him to testify at state hearings. I've heard what he's said to some of his supporters when he thought no one was listening. Some of what I've heard him say was not complimentary to his targeted voters, and I'll leave it at that.

the alerts were coming before the pedestrian collision. Delay due to something in the tracks, mechanical failure, etc.

The all or nothing approach is not a good one. Why can’t anyone ever come up with something that has compromise?

 

[ibdb]

The all or nothing approach is not a good one. Why can’t anyone ever come up with something that has compromise?

Initiatives almost never offer compromise positions. They are, by their very nature, extremist responses. If they weren't, they wouldn't gather the signatures necessary to make the ballot because they wouldn't gather enough attention. Initiatives are also limited in scope and can't contain solutions that are more complex because that's beyond their legal scope. Initiatives are supposed to be single subject, with a very narrow solution to offer.

More complex solutions are supposed to come from our legislators, which is why we have them. Legislation involves negotiation and ought to result in compromise and better solutions.Too often right now, legislators are tied to taking positions that are more extreme and are less willing to compromise because when they don't, they get threatened by those on the extremes with primary challenges or initiatives to overturn what they've done. Contests become more about winning than governing. Eyman doesn't care in the least about governing because he doesn't have to. He only has to care about winning.

 

[ChrisH]

Initiatives almost never offer compromise positions. They are, by their very nature, extremist responses. If they weren't, they wouldn't gather the signatures necessary to make the ballot because they wouldn't gather enough attention. Initiatives are also limited in scope and can't contain solutions that are more complex because that's beyond their legal scope. Initiatives are supposed to be single subject, with a very narrow solution to offer.

More complex solutions are supposed to come from our legislators, which is why we have them. Legislation involves negotiation and ought to result in compromise and better solutions.Too often right now, legislators are tied to taking positions that are more extreme and are less willing to compromise because when they don't, they get threatened by those on the extremes with primary challenges or initiatives to overturn what they've done. Contests become more about winning than governing. Eyman doesn't care in the least about governing because he doesn't have to. He only has to care about winning.

true. Such a broken system, especially with the way this country is now.

 

[RedMS]

Just went to “NO on I-976” Facebook a page. Most comments say they voted YES

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Just went to “NO on I-976” Facebook a page. Most comments say they voted YES

This surprised you?

What motivation would a "NO on I-976" person have in even visiting that page?

With some political issues a persons identity can get wrapped up in who their voting for or what they're voting for. So you'd expect a lot of comments from them on a page dedicated to them.

But, being No on I-976 doesn't come with a lot of passion.

All my arguments for voting No on I-976 don't come from passion. It's more of a "this is too far, and hopefully this is a warning shot to legislators to fix the serious issues with how ST3 is taxed

All my arguments for voting Yes on I-976 do come from passion. I could be extremely passionate for voting yes on it. It's a great fantasy for those of us like myself that love cars, and don't feel like it's fair that we have to a pay huge tax every year just for owning a multitude of them. I'd personally save a lot of money each year if it passes. I also don't have kids so why would I care about the long term consequences of my actions?

The outcome I'd like is for it to be rejected by voters, but only by a slim margin.

How does one comment on social media if one wants a 51% no? I don't know so all I'm going to do is to correct people who are factually wrong regardless of their side. But, I'm not going to go out of my way to do so.

 

[Ken's M3]

I would like every one to remember the state extends beyond the Puget Sound. I-976 eliminates funding for things not involved in Puget Sound mass transit. Like all of Eyman's initiatives it applies a simple solution to a complex problem. We on the East side did not vote on the light rail project, I do not pay a license fee based on some fictitious value of my car. Only those on the West side voted for the Tab fees the fund the light rail, but now if this is approved all projects in the state that use a tab fee will be eliminated.

 

[Araman0]

Most comforts and luxuries we enjoy today came from prior generations making sacrifices for things they would never see. I personally don't understand what not having kids has to do with not wanting to leave future generations with circumstances better than we inherited from our past generations.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I personally don't understand what not having kids has to do with not wanting to leave future generations with circumstances better than we inherited from our past generations.

As as a general rule its important to leave things better than what you inherited.

But, among those that have kids I've seen it take on a greater level of urgency. Where I can see there is more internal turmoil, and concern over how we're leaving things.

On my Facebook page I can definitely tell there is depression among some of the fathers when they think about their experiences as a kid versus what they're sharing with their kids.

Someone like me who doesn't have kids isn't going to have the same emotional bond.

I'm more like "Well maybe its time to have the robots take a go at it".

 

[ChrisH]

Anyone else surprised by the early results?

 

[RedMS]

Anyone else surprised by the early results?

No, are you? People are fed up with this state government’s greedy tactics and plain dishonesty and despite the millions spent by the NO-976 side, the people are making their voices heard.

A bigger indication of this is the overwhelming rejection on most of the advisory votes that were on the ballot. I think even the sheep voters of King County are waking up when taxes actually hit their pocket.