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Inside EVs 2170 in S and X at end of year

Discussion in 'Model S' started by tyson, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. tyson

    tyson Member

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  2. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    It will happen sometime for sure but the exact timing is still elusive unless there's a definite deadline bet by Musk (like 100 days or yours for free!).
     
  3. Troy

    Troy Member

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    #3 Troy, Mar 19, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
    I have just done some calculations to see how this would affect the Model S range. Here are the results:

    Model S 75D: 259 to 266 miles (7 miles increase)
    Model S 100D: 335 to 346 miles (11 miles increase)


    I have a spreadsheet here to calculate Model S and Model 3 range based on weight, drag coefficient, and drag area. I've calculated the 75 and 100 kWh pack weights from the 85 pack data. The assumption is the 85 pack weighs 1200 pounds (544 kg).

    85 kWh: Actual capacity = 81.5 kWh
    Case weight: 100 kg
    Module with 18650 cells: 444 kg cells
    Pack weight with 18650 cells: 544 kg

    75 kWh: Actual capacity = 75.0 kWh
    Case weight: 100 kg
    Module weight with 18650 cells: 409 kg cells
    Pack weight with 18650 cells: 509 kg
    Module weight with 2170 cells: 327 kg cells
    Pack weight with 2170 cells: 427 kg
    Weight reduction: 82 kg

    100 kWh: Actual capacity = 102.4 kWh
    Case weight: 100 kg
    Module weight with 18650 cells: 558 kg cells
    Pack weight with 18650 cells: 658 kg
    Module weight with 2170 cells: 446 kg cells
    Pack weight with 2170 cells: 546 kg
    Weight reduction: 112 kg
     
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  4. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    Hmm... a gap in the audio at the most inopportune time? Sounds like someone may have done a "Rose Mary Stretch"? ;)

    For those of you too young or who may have forgotten:
    Rose Mary Woods - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]
     
  5. MostlyStock

    MostlyStock Member

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    Here is my guess at the 2170 cell transition steps for the Model S and X.

    The 75 kWh battery will be replaced with a battery that is very similar to the large pack on the model 3 (rumored to be 70 kWh). This will use the same battery modules as the Model 3. We will see this when Tesla meets it 18650 cell order requirements and when Panasonic converts some of its production capacity to make 2170 cells.

    The second part of transition will occur around August when the 100 kWh pack gets 2170 cells and V3 supercharging. The battery pack will be incompatible with current cars as it will have a much higher voltage. I wouldn't expect a larger battery pack as that will be reserved to drum up demand at a later date. Other cars will likely get V3 supercharging/higher voltage battery packs in 2018.
     
  6. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    Where does the assumption about relative weights of 18650 and 2170 come from?

    Thank you kindly.
     
  7. vigge50

    vigge50 Member

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    @Troy as already asked, where have you got the information of weight reduction with the new 2170 cells?
     
  8. Troy

    Troy Member

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    It is based on Elon and JB's statements HERE, during the Q2 2014 conference call. They said the Gigafactory cells will have higher energy density because of changes in the chemistry. Listen to the audio. Energy density means energy per volume and energy per weight.

    In addition, above I said, "the assumption is the 85 pack weighs 1200 pounds (544 kg)." After I said that, I found THIS data source that shows 545 kg for the 85 kWh pack.

    @Topher. I don't see your messages because you are on my ignore list. You don't need to ask me anything. I don't care.

    To others: Don't go around downvoting people if you want to ask them questions later. HERE is exhibit 1. The ironic thing is, my prediction about the 75 kWh battery in that message turned out to be true. I also expect to be right about the 55 kWh smaller battery. I usually get downvoted by spam users who are detached from reality. These are the kind of people that will repeatedly support some unrealistic idea.
     
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  9. Rashomon

    Rashomon Member

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    Troy, I hope you're right on the energy density of the 2170 cells, but I've been looking for information outside of Staubel's comments and there just hasn't been any yet. Nor is it completely clear which generation of 18650 cells he's comparing to. I would be very pleased to see 6.0ah 2170s, but nothing like that has been on any battery company's roadmap -- at least any roadmap I've seen. I would love to be pleasantly surprised, as this would be one of the biggest jumps in energy density since Panasonic released 3.2ah 18650s a little more than 6 years ago. (They also announced the still vaporware 4.0ah cells about the same time.). Are you also assuming the 2170 cells weigh 75 grams?
     
  10. Topher

    Topher Energy Curmudgeon

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    Straubel said 10-15% increase in energy density (though the baseline is unclear). So Troy's math is off.

    Thank you kindly.
     

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