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The natives are restless.
Exactly. And idle hands make for the devils work
With most things no news is good news. Its seems with Tesla, no news is cause to worry and speculate on the latest issues, and then that turns into a doom loop 20 pages long.
I really think that Tesla's biggest mistake over the past couple of months was doing an excellent job with building up the hype leading up to the June 22 launch event, and the with the Get Amp'd stuff, but then it all went a bit quite. They need to focus on keeping the train moving, even if it's not actual news. Post another video of the factory, or some useless information about how the sprocket drives the widget. Anything. There's no shortage of stuff they could post, to keep most of this forum interested, and comforted that Tesla is still an open, sharing company, trying to do it's very best.
They have achieved so much, building a really freaking amazing car in a very short time period (relatively), but all that is so easily forgetten when they go quite, and we're all left to our own devices.
Wow, I'm pretty surprised bonnie. That's a very dismissive post, seemly unable to empathize with a large swath of people. You obviously make a good living and purchased a roadster, which puts you in a fairly elite niche of people when it comes to money and risk acceptance. I wonder how much that colors your view.
P reservationists are being asked to lock down now. At what point in Tesla's reservation list do you feel is the cutoff point where it is or is not ok to express concerns?
P reservationists are being asked to lock down now. At what point in Tesla's reservation list do you feel is the cutoff point where it is or is not ok to express concerns?
She did say that if the info one needs to lock in is not yet available, then one can defer... Let's not turn this into a (financial) class war. There are poor people who have early adopter mentality as well. Honestly, if Tesla delivered my vehicle today, as-is, I'd take it, especially with the promise of free upgrades and tweaks to come. Others would rather have a more complete car (there's thread here on deferring for a more "complete" car), and that's fine, but those aren't early adopters.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
And wow, I'm surprised you took it there. We constantly tell people if they don't have the stomach for risk, they shouldn't invest. That's not associated with money, that's associated with ability to tolerate risk. Let's not twist what I said.
I did say that IF you need to lock down and don't have the info you need, then you should defer. And no shame in that.
(And for the record, I spent the majority of my adult life raising my son by myself, no child support, living paycheck to paycheck - and sometimes not even that. I took just as many risks then as I do now. My comments had nothing to do with my current financial state of affairs. So please don't make it into that. Low blow.)
Oh hell, I lived on a box of Minute Rice one week in my 20s, just so I'd have enough money to pay for altitude and get some good jumps in at the drop zone. So clearly my ability to take risk is NOT tied to my bank account. (And the only reason I had Minute Rice was because I'd refused to eat that nasty stuff - til it was that or a good jump).
This confuses me. At what point is it ok to express concern to Tesla about information? I'm hearing non-early adopters should just defer and hope data is known. And early adopters aren't expected to ask at all?
To be completely frank, when I put down my reservation I thought the Roadster owners were the early adopters, the ground breakers and thus had higher expectations about product stability in the Model S release. Perhaps those expectations were wrong, but I doubt I'm the only one that thought along those lines.
I never said it was. I said you obviously have money and obviously take risk. I didn't say they were tied together, simply that the combination of those attributes may be coloring your view.
I'm glad you managed a difficult life and succeeded.
Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
I don't think this is all about people complaining that they have to lock down without knowing every single detail about the car. I absolutely trust Tesla to try to do the right thing by its customers, but they're only human, and not perfect, and us holding their feet to the fire on certain issues I think is a good thing. Elon seems to have incredibly high standards, and I think he would applaud most people's efforts to try to get the best car possible with the best features etc. That's always been the goal of the Model S, and that's all we're trying to get.
I come at this as someone who has been evangelicizing for Tesla for years. I "lost" a friend who was a Sig reservation holder over the Sig pricing premium (which I still think was a mistake), and he ended up buying a Panamera instead. Another friend is now reserved for a Sig, which I convinced him to get instead of a Karma, but he wants and expects an awesome car from day 1 for the price he's paying (not an unreasonable expectation, I might add), and was confused by last night's blog post (he doesn't follow TMC at all and had no idea there was an issue with the lights).
I'm sure others have done much better persuading people to reserve Teslas, and I think of these people, who aren't "true believers" or early adopters or whatever, and don't "know" that Tesla is a fantastic company that will eventually do right by its customers, when I offer critiques of the car. I want these people to think that they've gotten the best car ever built when they take delivery. I want my friend who bought the Panamera to have massive buyer's remorse when I give him a ride in my car. I want everyone who sees my car and takes a ride in it to immediately want to go out and buy one. Any criticism I offer comes from that place and no other. Even the concerns about the ramp up are not about me getting my car earlier -- I've waiting well over three years, I can handle another couple of months. But friends who I told I was getting the car "this summer" are laughing at me because they think I'm never getting the car! I want Tesla to make them eat their words!
I come at this as someone who has been evangelicizing for Tesla for years. I "lost" a friend who was a Sig reservation holder over the Sig pricing premium (which I still think was a mistake), and he ended up buying a Panamera instead. Another friend is now reserved for a Sig, which I convinced him to get instead of a Karma, but he wants and expects an awesome car from day 1 for the price he's paying (not an unreasonable expectation, I might add), and was confused by last night's blog post (he doesn't follow TMC at all and had no idea there was an issue with the lights).
I'm sure others have done much better persuading people to reserve Teslas, and I think of these people, who aren't "true believers" or early adopters or whatever, and don't "know" that Tesla is a fantastic company that will eventually do right by its customers, when I offer critiques of the car. I want these people to think that they've gotten the best car ever built when they take delivery. I want my friend who bought the Panamera to have massive buyer's remorse when I give him a ride in my car. I want everyone who sees my car and takes a ride in it to immediately want to go out and buy one. Any criticism I offer comes from that place and no other. Even the concerns about the ramp up are not about me getting my car earlier -- I've waiting well over three years, I can handle another couple of months. But friends who I told I was getting the car "this summer" are laughing at me because they think I'm never getting the car! I want Tesla to make them eat their words!
mnx
2018 M3P
Here's an idea... My don't we make a new subforum "Dear Tesla", "Complaints/Suggestions" or something like that?
That would certainly keep down the noise on the main Model S forum. Bonnie, what do you think?
That would certainly keep down the noise on the main Model S forum. Bonnie, what do you think?
If you think the Tesla fan club goes so quickly from praising to complaining about the company, you should see how the wider community of investors flip flop with the company. An investor not prepared to experience the real world volatility of the stock, will truly experience "whip lash". Maybe because I'm an investor it is more a comment on my own experience. The point you made in your comment is well taken.
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It's not boilerplate corporate language, it's boilerplate public company language. Without it, the SEC can consider any statement to be a public statement constituting commitment, and a failure to meet that commitment could constitute SEC fraud.
Don't read anything into it. If it wasn't there, I would be more concerned that their securities attorneys weren't doing their job.
Don't read anything into it. If it wasn't there, I would be more concerned that their securities attorneys weren't doing their job.
kevincwelch
Active Member
Nonsense.
Name all the poor people out there who are buying a Model S. We're not talking about the latest cell phone technology or television here. This is a $100,000 investment. This is a house (in some areas), a college education, 4 cars, medical bills, retirement funds, etc.
Looking at all those polls, one can easily see that purchasing the Model S is going to be a cakewalk for some people on this forum. On the other end of things, there are people really stretching their dollar to get this car. So, don't even suggest this isn't about class warfare. This is ALL about class and economics...and there.
It cannot escape the discerning eye that there are a lot of people here who kiss Tesla's electric ass.
Sorry. I'm not one of them.
If having some concerns about the product delivered makes me not an early adopter (i.e., long time poster, Roadster owner, >$500k income yearly), then fine. I'm not an early adopter. Words thrown around here like it is some badge of honor...to be an "early adopter." I was there first! Crap.
Crap. Crap. Crap.
Not equivalent.
People have valid questions and concerns. If that upsets the old folks around here, too bad.
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
Right. I'm the original poster. I don't quite have the early adopter mentality, thusly, my reservation is 7577, not 75. I keep pretty quiet about the lights and what not, because I see the bigger picture. I have faith in the company's spirit and intent, and realize that we are the keystone to their success. They know this. Just read their Q3 financial statement. Car mags will rip them apart and affect the success of Model X and Gen III if they don't get it right.
I totally get Bonnie's post. Anyone willing to drop 40 grand and then wait for three years is a high risk, low expectation person, who wants to be in as early as possible...an early adopter. She is absolutely correct, sigs and founders are the loudest complainers but really should be the most reassured in the bunch. Hardly any of us wouldn't give our left small finger to have been in Konstantin's position a month ago, and remember, he got somewhat less refined car than the one you test drove and far less refined that the one you're getting delivered to your doorstep.
Nonsense? Crap? Kissing ass? Old folks? I think the tone here needs to cool down.
On the meat of the post though, how does having a lot of money make you an early adopter? I know lots of wealthy people who don't buy items until they're proven because they don't want to deal with the hassles of being an early adopter. Can you imagine some big CEO showing off some great system in his house that crashes 3x during the presentation? Can you imagine how they'd feel being stranded on the side of the road? This isn't to knock it at all, there are a LOT of people who prefer to sit back and wait for the first round of folks to beat on something and prove it sound before jumping in themselves.
Again, money has nothing to do with an early adopter mentality -- only what they can afford to be an early adopter ON.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
-sigh-
The logic breaks down just a tad with the first sentence. So basically I should conclude that if poor people cannot buy the car, then they have no risk-taking mentality? C'mon Kevin. I'm sure that's not what you meant.
Yes, EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED TO THEIR SATISFACTION. No one is saying differently. But if people aren't willing to recognize WHERE we are in the product introduction cycle, they are going to be frustrated.
So IF there is information you need and Tesla cannot provide it, then defer. They will provide it when it is locked down. But we are in the early stages of product introduction. That's not hard to understand.
And I'm going to choose to ignore your comment of people who kiss Tesla's electric ass. That was uncalled for and untrue. Because otherwise you're dismissing the opinions of those (like me) who've had an extremely positive experience with Tesla. What makes my experience less valuable because it has been positive?
The logic breaks down just a tad with the first sentence. So basically I should conclude that if poor people cannot buy the car, then they have no risk-taking mentality? C'mon Kevin. I'm sure that's not what you meant.
Yes, EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO HAVE THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED TO THEIR SATISFACTION. No one is saying differently. But if people aren't willing to recognize WHERE we are in the product introduction cycle, they are going to be frustrated.
So IF there is information you need and Tesla cannot provide it, then defer. They will provide it when it is locked down. But we are in the early stages of product introduction. That's not hard to understand.
And I'm going to choose to ignore your comment of people who kiss Tesla's electric ass. That was uncalled for and untrue. Because otherwise you're dismissing the opinions of those (like me) who've had an extremely positive experience with Tesla. What makes my experience less valuable because it has been positive?
kevincwelch
Active Member
Right.
And functionally those that adopt early have money and means. So when the risk is high and the financial dive deeper, being an early adopter has EVERYTHING to do with income or disposable money.
That's like saying insurance companies don't dictate medical care; no normal person could afford the expense of todays medical care without insurance. Insurance dictates medical care until you reach someone with very high income or disposable money.
Wealth equates with risk taking and enables one to be an early adopter.
I offer no apology for holding any person or company accountable for their actions-- good or bad. Nothing wrong with being an early adopter and having expectations.
So, I don't accept Bonnie's elitist definition of being an early adopter. Nope.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Thanks. Elitist. Wow.
This seems slightly more elitist to me:
I equated early adopter with the ability to tolerate risk.
It would be great to have a conversation without potshots.
This seems slightly more elitist to me:
I equated early adopter with the ability to tolerate risk.
It would be great to have a conversation without potshots.
Yea, this all got way too hostile, sorry for being part of that (it wasn't intentional, honest). Early adopter is a squishy term so there are a lot of folks in a gray area when it comes to "reasonable" expectations. Two years from now, it won't be so squishy, though even then EVs and Tesla will be a tiny market share so you could still make the argument they're early adopters.
Kevin's $500K a year haven't taught him that 1.0 of anything is not as good. He doesn't get that early adopter is not a "badge of honor". Rather it is us trying to get through his head/$500K that an early adopter mindset is required when looking at 1.0 of anything.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
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