Installation advice for heat pump water heater

[SageBrush]

Get on the 100% electrification heat pump train! ALL Aboard!!

Let's Ride These Heatwaves With Heat Pumps

I expected a slightly more rigorous treatment from the NRDC. It was annoying to read someone who does not realize that an "air conditioner" is a heat pump, albeit uni-directional. And the cartoon that implied that one outside heat pump integrates the heat transfer functions of multiple devices is a lot more wrong than right.

The article also sidestepped the practical connection between heat pumps and home PV.

Like you, I am in love with heat pumps but this article was a Meh

 

[nwdiver]

Like you, I am in love with heat pumps but this article was a Meh

Yeah. I think it was geared more toward the uninitiated.

 

[nwdiver]

On Sale again

 

[mspohr]

On Sale again

View attachment 593457

I don't think 40 gallons is enough for "2-4 people, 2 bathrooms" especially with the slow recovery time of heat pump.

 

[arnolddeleon]

I don't think 40 gallons is enough for "2-4 people, 2 bathrooms" especially with the slow recovery time of heat pump.

This unit also has conventional heating elements. In its default mode it will use them if it is NOT recovering fast enough.

 

[SSedan]

So it took a long time due to injuring myself, disc rupture resulting in L5/S1 fusion, but the Richmond(Rheem) 50gallon I ordered in May and picked up in June is finally installed.
Rerouting the lines was a hassle.

Didn't realize the previous 40gallon electric was only on a 20amp circuit and I needed 30amp. I had the unbelievable luck that this room had been the laundry room before a renovation, and the old 30amp outlet for the dryer was tucked above the drop ceiling. So I set to work rerouting that. Thinking I should maybe buy a lottery ticket.

Draining the old water heater was the hardest part. I have repeatedly had to blow compressed air in thru the drain to clear sediment.

I want to duct it eventually, but that will wait till spring. Given all the particular details I expect to have to set it to resistance heat only soon anyway.

 

[SSedan]

This would be a brand specific thing but the EcoNet app used with the Rheem/Richmond products will apparently try to connect about indefinitely in if you mistype your WiFi password. It never errored out.

 

[iPlug]

Our Rheem HPWH is 4 years old now and still running strong, but our add-on EcoNet WiFi module recently checked out so unable to run/program TOU for now. Hopefully this is not a common issue. Replacement module on order.

Shortly after our install, WiFi became built-in on Rheem HPWH units.

 

[iPlug]

Anyone have experience with Bradford White HPWHs such as reliability?

Looking to get quotes for upgrading my parents' NG->HPWH. Thinking to go with a Rheem such as we got in 2017, but same plumbing company seems to be pushing Bradford White. Looks like UEF is lower for them per specs.

 

[nwdiver]

Anyone have experience with Bradford White HPWHs such as reliability?

Looking to get quotes for upgrading my parents' NG->HPWH. Thinking to go with a Rheem such as we got in 2017, but same plumbing company seems to be pushing Bradford White. Looks like UEF is lower for them per specs.

Those are suspiciously identical in appearance to the GE GeoSpring that has a ~120% failure rate in my experience.

 

[iPlug]

Those are suspiciously identical in appearance to the GE GeoSpring that has a ~120% failure rate in my experience.

Thanks.

Sounds similar to Rheem whose products are also sold under the brands Ruud, Richmond, Paloma, Solahart, Splended, and some GE brands.

Given lower UEF for the Bradford White unit as well as possible reliability issues, will probably steer my folks towards the Rheem line.

 

[mspohr]

Those are suspiciously identical in appearance to the GE GeoSpring that has a ~120% failure rate in my experience.

I don't know anything about the Bradford White heaters but I do have a GE GeoSpring which I bought on sale after they discontinued it (and before I found out about their reputation for problems.)
I've had it for about 5 years now and absolutely no problems. (I may be an anomaly).

 

[mspohr]

Thanks.

Sounds similar to Rheem whose products are also sold under the brands Ruud, Richmond, Paloma, Solahart, Splended, and some GE brands.

Given lower UEF for the Bradford White unit as well as possible reliability issues, will probably steer my folks towards the Rheem line.

Rheem is probably a better choice.

 

[nwdiver]

Good news for anyone looking for a drop-in replacement for that gas burner that's getting exponentially more expensive to operate. As long as there's a plug nearby.

RHEEM® INTRODUCES 120 VOLT PROTERRA® PLUG-IN HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS​

 

[iPlug]

Good news for anyone looking for a drop-in replacement for that gas burner that's getting exponentially more expensive to operate. As long as there's a plug nearby.

RHEEM® INTRODUCES 120 VOLT PROTERRA® PLUG-IN HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS​

Hopefully Rheem labeling and plumbers make it very clear to customers that these 120 V units are for conditioned indoors or garages in mild winter climates like SoCal, Florida, Pacific Coastal etc. and that water capacity oversizing should be seriously considered.

Even so, some dude will buy a 50 G unit where there are hard freezes, install it in a garage and declare heat pumps don’t work when he doesn’t get the recovery rate that a 120 V unit is not capable of.

 

[Dave EV]

Hopefully Rheem labeling and plumbers make it very clear to customers that these 120 V units are for conditioned indoors or garages in mild winter climates like SoCal, Florida, Pacific Coastal etc. and that water capacity oversizing should be seriously considered.

Even so, some dude will buy a 50 G unit where there are hard freezes, install it in a garage and declare heat pumps don’t work when he doesn’t get the recovery rate that a 120 V unit is not capable of.

Keep in mind that there's two 120V versions, even - a shared circuit version with a 4200 BTU compressor and a dedicated circuit version with a 12000 BTU compressor (same size as the 240V version).

The shared circuit version will not be powerful at all.

At least you can get the shared circuit version with a pre-installed thermostatic mixing valve - you are likely going to want to run the heater at pretty high temperatures unless you are a very light hot-water user.

IMO a thermostatic mixing valve makes a ton of sense in all electric water heaters so they can be better used for demand response without any change to comfort or safety.

 

[iPlug]

...dedicated circuit version with a 12000 BTU compressor (same size as the 240V version)...

Not sure why, but over at the Rheem site on their spec sheets it does not look like they make the 120V dedicated circuit version with >50G nominal capacity. UEF caps out at a measly 3.0 .

 

[SageBrush]

Not sure why, but over at the Rheem site on their spec sheets it does not look like they make the 120V dedicated circuit version with >50G nominal capacity.

And here I was thinking that the way to deal with low peak power is a larger tank

 

[Dave EV]

Not sure why, but over at the Rheem site on their spec sheets it does not look like they make the 120V dedicated circuit version with >50G nominal capacity. UEF caps out at a measly 3.0 .

Yeah, though honestly, if you have a dedicated circuit and the available power in your main panel, one should convert the 120V circuit to a 240V circuit and then use the ProTerra 15A model. Then you have the full range of sizes available (40-80A), an extra 2250 W of resistance heating should you really need it and a UEF rating from 3.45-3.70.

Though I really have to wonder about those UEF ratings - if the same compressor, why would the 15A version be less efficient than the 30A version which has double the resistance heating?

Hmm, just realized that all the 240V models only have the 4200 BTU compressor. Running the calcs:
4200 BTU ~= 1.23 kW
12000 BTU ~= 3.5 kW

So the 12000 BTU model almost has the heating power of your typical resistance water heater that you install on a 30A circuit - normally 3.8-4.5 kW or so.

Now the real question is: Why not offer the 12000 BTU compressor on the 240V models? With that compressor at most you would only need one of the two heating elements, or even better, squeeze in a 16000 BTU heat pump and match the recovery performance of a standard resistance heater unless it's really cold out.

 

[Wnuk]

For those of you with the Rheem 50 gallon unit, how many in a household? We are a family of three and are debating weather the 50 gallon unit is enough or to go with the 65. We take short showers, using about 10 gallons of hot water each. Most mornings we usually all shower within an hour of each other. Washing machine run on cool water cycles so showers are typically only hot water usage aside from dish washer.