Installers wrapped up their install today. I didn't go through Tesla, but went through a local installer and got a 12 kw system with 2 Powerwalls. Within about 30 minutes of the installer commissioning the system, I got an e-mail from Tesla about my powerwalls and then was able to see it in my app. I asked the installer if its supposed to be like this as I expected solar to fulfil the home requirement and then rest pushed to battery charging with nothing going to grid. I don't even have PTO, so why is power going to the grid too? The installer didn't say much.
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Installation Done - Solar = Grid, House = Powerwall?
- Thread starter HardHitter
- Start date
This makes sense. I shouldn't be under this setting then because I don't have PTO so I'm not getting any kind of credits right? Should I be staying in Self-Powered Operational Mode and then change back to Time-Based Control after I get PTO?
Unless your system was configured for non export by tesla, you shouldnt be using it pre PTO at all, if you want to "do what you are supposed to be doing".
You didnt mention having powerwall + (with its own inverter) so I am going to make an assumption that you have 2 powerwall 2s, and as such do not have any "non export" setting, so should likely not be using it at all prior to PTO. If you dont have a bi directional meter already, you could actually be being charged for the solar you generate.
You also are not supposed to export to the grid (except for "testing") prior to PTO. Some utilities might not care, some might, and as I said its also possible that you could actually be charged for the solar you are generating if your current meter isnt capable of reading backwards.
The settings I have right now under Powerwall is I have it set for Self-Powered with backup reserve set at 0% (just for tonight) and then I only have "Grid Charging" under Advanced Options which it says it is Restricted and said its configured by the installer.
How do I make it so if there is excess from the PV system, it doesn't go back to the grid? The installer said its normal for it to go back but PGE won't credit you anything until PTO.
With the current settings set above, if the batteries run out of power during the evening, my house will just consume power from the grid until the PV system starts generating correct?
How do I make it so if there is excess from the PV system, it doesn't go back to the grid? The installer said its normal for it to go back but PGE won't credit you anything until PTO.
With the current settings set above, if the batteries run out of power during the evening, my house will just consume power from the grid until the PV system starts generating correct?
At the end of the day, the installers configured and setup everything and said I can use the system live. They are the "experts" so I'm just following what they told me, because I questioned them about what the app was showing me, which was, it is showing power going back to the grid from my solar. They mentioned that is common and PG&E won't start crediting you anything until PTO.
I didn't go through Tesla, but went through a local installer. Its 30 Panasonic 400W panels, 30 IQ8 microinverters, Tesla gateway and 2 Powerwalls.
You might want to take a look through the paperwork you signed, including the application for permission to operate.
Yes, if your batteries get to zero (which is not actually zero) your home should just pull power from the grid.
Some installs have the ability to do that, but it usually requires a tesla inverter / powerwall + setup from what I understand. Failing that, I think the short answer is "you dont, at least not without disconnecting yourself from the grid and running just off your solar and powerwalls, if you have enough energy to do that".
Note that I am just another regular person on the internet (although I do read most threads in this subforum, and this subforum has some amazingly well informed and smart people. I am always amazed at what I read here in this corner of TMC).
You did mention that your solar installers "were the experts" so they should be able to tell you if this is possible with how they set you up. As for operating before PTO, You say "I left it how they set it up, they are the experts". This is kind of like your taxes. You may have a tax preparer do your taxes, but you are still responsible for them.
Same deal here. If you violate the terms of what you agreed to (which is not to export anything prior to PTO) and for some reason get zapped by PGE, it will not be your installers issue. It will be yours. Its unlikely, but not impossible. Check your application for permission to operate to see what you agreed to, then make your decisions on whether you will "just let it run" after that.
I appreciate your feedback and commentary. I'll re-read the contract I signed with the solar company and see if I can see anything.
If it comes down to needing to go off grid, I can do it virtually through the Tesla app it looks like. My system is oversized so I think I'll have enough solar generated usually during the day to cover home use and refill batteries and then when the PV system stops generating, I'll reconnect to the grid for if I some reason run out of battery during the night.
This is what PGE says directly. You can see this exact quote from them below, at the link to a PGE page on this topic:
==================
====================
You can certainly disconnect and run off the grid though as in that mode you basically have zero impact to PGE. Before trusting that "off grid" button in the tesla app, you will want to know definitively how your system is setup, and whether you have any loads at all that are either not monitored or not backed up.
==================
Know when to turn on your system
Never turn on the solar or renewable energy system before receiving the permission to operate (PTO) letter from PG&E.====================
You can certainly disconnect and run off the grid though as in that mode you basically have zero impact to PGE. Before trusting that "off grid" button in the tesla app, you will want to know definitively how your system is setup, and whether you have any loads at all that are either not monitored or not backed up.
You could also change your reserve to 100%, and after the batteries are full, open the breaker(s) for your microinverters and you won't generate anything from solar. Since the reserve is at 100%, the batteries won't discharge either, but they will be on standby for a grid outage. Of course if that happens, you'll have to close the breaker(s) again to recharge them. Doing it this way you shouldn't export anything.
Like others have said, depending on your home usage, the time of year, and weather, you can flip the mains breaker and disconnect your house from the grid and run off solar and PW for days at a time. This saves some money while waiting for PTO and helps you understand how your system performs.
Would what hold up? They said specifically "Technically you are not supposed to leave your system turned on until you get PTO from PG&E". Again, like Taxes. "Technically, you are supposed to only claim business miles as XXX but I havent seen any issue" does not protect someone if the IRS comes and says 'we are auditing you, we need proof of your business miles".
You are not supposed to use it while on grid, full stop. Whether they care about it is something else, but that is a risk you are deciding to take. If your transformer cant handle the backflow, and something happens, and then they start digging into "what happened" and its "oh @HardHitter has a new PV system and it was backfilling the grid, causing a transformer issue" thats not going to protect you from anything.
If you dont currently have a bi directional meter, and get charged dollars for your export (not only not getting credit, but getting charged for them as if you used that electricity), and they say "oh sorry, you were not supposed to be exporting, please pay....."
Unlikely to happen, I am not trying to fear monger or anything, but lets not pretend it is something its not.
@HardHitter I think that @jjrandorin is on the money with the tax analogy here. Mostly, PG&E doesn't appear to care, but I think that the operative word is "mostly". As your installer points out, the answer is that you aren't supposed to. I believe that there are people here who have reported being billed for their solar generation before PTO. Certainly there are users here (@holeydonut comes to mind) who have been given an extremely hard time by PG&E. Even if you are in another generation group, e.g. SVCE, PG&E still runs our section of the grid.
I suspect that like taxes, and say local permitting, once you end up in the "problem" bin, you never get out. YMMV...
All the best,
BG
I suspect that like taxes, and say local permitting, once you end up in the "problem" bin, you never get out. YMMV...
All the best,
BG
Thanks all again for your feedback.
My system included a "whole home backup" where they installed what looks like a 2nd 200A panel? Regardless, I tested the "Disconnect from Grid" in the Tesla app just now and then went around the house checking each room to see if there was something not getting power (turned on/off lights, fans, TVs, checked kitchen appliances, fridge, etc.) and everything seemed to be working as no issue.
Is this the safest bet for me to operate until PTO?
During the day, solar would supply my house and excess goes to the batteries until full. I'm assuming when the batteries are full, the solar system will scale down to match house consumption and slowly start using the batteries as solar ends. Before I go to bed, I will plan to reconnect to the grid in case for some reason the batteries don't last us throughout the night and we have to consume from grid. Then in the morning when I wake-up, disconnect from the grid again through the app. Rinse and repeat until PTO.
This would allow me to consume the energy from the system/batteries, without the risk of pushing excess to the grid pre-PTO. Thoughts? Would the above put any kind of unnecessary strain on the hardware by doing this?
My system included a "whole home backup" where they installed what looks like a 2nd 200A panel? Regardless, I tested the "Disconnect from Grid" in the Tesla app just now and then went around the house checking each room to see if there was something not getting power (turned on/off lights, fans, TVs, checked kitchen appliances, fridge, etc.) and everything seemed to be working as no issue.
Is this the safest bet for me to operate until PTO?
During the day, solar would supply my house and excess goes to the batteries until full. I'm assuming when the batteries are full, the solar system will scale down to match house consumption and slowly start using the batteries as solar ends. Before I go to bed, I will plan to reconnect to the grid in case for some reason the batteries don't last us throughout the night and we have to consume from grid. Then in the morning when I wake-up, disconnect from the grid again through the app. Rinse and repeat until PTO.
This would allow me to consume the energy from the system/batteries, without the risk of pushing excess to the grid pre-PTO. Thoughts? Would the above put any kind of unnecessary strain on the hardware by doing this?
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