Installed a Tesla charger in my condo garage. Other owners are forcing me to remove it. Thoughts?

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Jealous jerks. Worse case, u get your own meter.
COA are hateful groups, period.

The OP wrote that it was on his meter. The issue is that he modified common property to wire it.

 

[Rocky_H]

The problem with the OP is that he/she want to claim that his/her right to have an EV charger is being denied. However, he/she hasn't been denied because he/she did not go through the proper channels to be denied. The HOA was not consulted to have a say.

Well, that last statement certainly is not true--they were consulted. Remember this from the original post?

In past HOA meetings I have brought up the fact that I'm planning on installing a Tesla charger in my dedicated parking spot in our condo garage. Nobody objected to it when I brought it up in the past.

So yes, he absolutely did consult with the other HOA members at their HOA meetings before doing this, which is seeking their approval. It would be up to a judge's interpretation possibly whether announcing the intention at the meetings would qualify as seeking approval and whether the other HOA members shrugging and not objecting back then would be considered as granting approval. Part of this might also include how documented it was in the meeting minutes, how many times, how far in advance, etc. People keep referring to "the approval process", as if there's just one, but I guess it depends on how formal it would need to be to qualify. I wouldn't place money on either outcome, but I'm suggesting that there seems to be some wiggle room where it could be decided either way.

 

[drawfour]

Well, that last statement certainly is not true--they were consulted. Remember this from the original post?



So yes, he absolutely did consult with the other HOA members at their HOA meetings before doing this, which is seeking their approval. It would be up to a judge's interpretation possibly whether announcing the intention at the meetings would qualify as seeking approval and whether the other HOA members shrugging and not objecting back then would be considered as granting approval. Part of this might also include how documented it was in the meeting minutes, how many times, how far in advance, etc. People keep referring to "the approval process", as if there's just one, but I guess it depends on how formal it would need to be to qualify. I wouldn't place money on either outcome, but I'm suggesting that there seems to be some wiggle room where it could be decided either way.

No, bringing it up at the HOA meeting is tantamount to saying "hey, if I ask for approval, will you give it?". That's different from actually asking through the established channels that the HOA already has. And there is no way the HOA does not have a requirement of a written request process.

When I lived in a house with an HOA, I could do whatever I wanted to the interior. But anything that I wanted to do to that could be viewed from the street had to be approved, via a written request. If I wanted to build a fence, add a structure (such as a treehouse, children's playset, shed, bedroom addition), change more than 25% of the landscaping, change a facade, paint the house, etc... all of that required a written request to the HOA architectural committee, giving them 30 days to review and approve/reject.

So, no, he very likely did not go through the approval process that his HOA has. As president of the HOA, he of all people should be very aware of the approval process.

 

[TT97]

So yes, he absolutely did consult with the other HOA members at their HOA meetings before doing this, which is seeking their approval. It would be up to a judge's interpretation possibly whether announcing the intention at the meetings would qualify as seeking approval and whether the other HOA members shrugging and not objecting back then would be considered as granting approval. Part of this might also include how documented it was in the meeting minutes, how many times, how far in advance, etc. People keep referring to "the approval process", as if there's just one, but I guess it depends on how formal it would need to be to qualify. I wouldn't place money on either outcome, but I'm suggesting that there seems to be some wiggle room where it could be decided either way.

I asked the OP if the request was in the minutes (Post 6) but never was answered. If it is in the minutes, he has a case. If it's not in the minutes, the request didn't happen during the meeting (as the board President, he should have verified it was in the minutes before having them approved.)

 

[Rocky_H]

No, bringing it up at the HOA meeting is tantamount to saying "hey, if I ask for approval, will you give it?". That's different from actually asking through the established channels that the HOA already has. And there is no way the HOA does not have a requirement of a written request process.

When I lived in a house with an HOA, I could do whatever I wanted to the interior. But anything that I wanted to do to that could be viewed from the street had to be approved, via a written request. If I wanted to build a fence, add a structure (such as a treehouse, children's playset, shed, bedroom addition), change more than 25% of the landscaping, change a facade, paint the house, etc... all of that required a written request to the HOA architectural committee, giving them 30 days to review and approve/reject.

So, no, he very likely did not go through the approval process that his HOA has. As president of the HOA, he of all people should be very aware of the approval process.

So your particular HOA situations have been very strict and regimented. That's not necessarily the case everywhere.

I asked the OP if the request was in the minutes (Post 6) but never was answered. If it is in the minutes, he has a case. If it's not in the minutes, the request didn't happen during the meeting (as the board President, he should have verified it was in the minutes before having them approved.)

Yes, that was interesting. I also noticed that was asked, but not answered, so probably doesn't look good.

 

[Eclectic]

Well, that last statement certainly is not true--they were consulted. Remember this from the original post?



So yes, he absolutely did consult with the other HOA members at their HOA meetings before doing this, which is seeking their approval. It would be up to a judge's interpretation possibly whether announcing the intention at the meetings would qualify as seeking approval and whether the other HOA members shrugging and not objecting back then would be considered as granting approval. Part of this might also include how documented it was in the meeting minutes, how many times, how far in advance, etc. People keep referring to "the approval process", as if there's just one, but I guess it depends on how formal it would need to be to qualify. I wouldn't place money on either outcome, but I'm suggesting that there seems to be some wiggle room where it could be decided either way.

The code is pretty clear on this. It says that the process has to follow the process the HOA uses for considering architectural modifications. Simply mentioning it at a meeting is not enough. I've never seen an architectural modification application take the form of a verbal statement at a meeting. It is always followed by a written request that sets forth what will be done.

Anyone who is telling OP that he followed the process has no idea what they are talking about. Every HOA agreement I've seen has very specific steps to be taken for architectural modification requests.

People should stop encouraging the OP to force this into court. Sure, you never know if you get a judge who loves EVs and hates HOAs, but it's an expensive, maddening process that should only be a last resort when you are about to lose a lot of money anyway. OP will be better off just asking for approval after the fact and if that isn't provided, he/she should remove the charger, patch the holes, then properly submit the application. That will be MUCH cheaper and easier than going to court.

 

[bayarea_joe]

I asked the OP if the request was in the minutes (Post 6) but never was answered. If it is in the minutes, he has a case. If it's not in the minutes, the request didn't happen during the meeting (as the board President, he should have verified it was in the minutes before having them approved.)

Why are you guys spending so much time on this thread? If he needs help or still stuck in limbo, he would be updating this thread by now.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Does it materially matter that in this case, it's a condo board and not an HOA?

 

[jaguar36]

The tenants called an emergency meeting tonight to oust me as the president, force me to remove the charger, and repair the building.

So... What happened?

 

[Graffi]

I think the OP has left this thread, so we are just beating a dead horse. The OP had the initial and a few other posts all on day one, and nothing else since. Not sure if he is even reading these now, although he was last online 6 hours ago. He has not posted anything in the week since the supposed "Special HOA Board Meeting". This may be real, but I am having my doubts due to his abandoning the thread that he started.

If it is already resolved, then he should at least have the courtesy of letting us know. Just saying ....

 

[David Haynes]

He was arrested by the HOA police
He is serving 20 years to life, for violating the rules.
It was all over the news.

 

[drawfour]

Does it materially matter that in this case, it's a condo board and not an HOA?

Probably not. Condo board or HOA - they all have CC&Rs (Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions) attached to the deed that bind the owner to the agreement of what entity is in charge of making the rules and enforcing them. His CC&Rs will specify the Condo Board as the ruling entity, and he likely did not follow the procedures they had put forth.

 

[drawfour]

The code is pretty clear on this. It says that the process has to follow the process the HOA uses for considering architectural modifications. Simply mentioning it at a meeting is not enough. I've never seen an architectural modification application take the form of a verbal statement at a meeting. It is always followed by a written request that sets forth what will be done.

Exactly. Architectural requests would have to specify the route the new power line will take, the point(s) in the wall where the wall will be drilled, the exact location of the HPWC (i.e. height off the floor and other measurements), the type and style of any conduit used, etc... The architectural committee could just glance over it quickly and rubber-stamp it approved, or they could actually walk down to the parking space and eyeball the proposed plans to make sure it is reasonable to them based on the description. There's no way that level of detail would be in the meeting minutes (the OP even said he "brought up the fact" that he was going to install the HPWC). Saying "I'm going to install a HPWC" and giving the specifications that would be required in the application are two very different things.

 

[TT97]

Unless the OP gives an update, at this point everything here is academic.

While a condo board and HOA would have similar CC&R, his building only has eight units. I seriously doubt such a small building has an architectural committee (or any committees for that matter). I am also guessing he is the first owner to install a charging station in the building (otherwise, as President, he would know the precedence).

As the first to install a charging station, the condo had no rules in place for the requirements to install the connector. By the OP's description, it seems like the station was installed to code and connected to his meter - it is really seems more just another owner that has a beef with him.

The OP just needs to get four of his neighbors to side with him to resolve the matter. Going to court would not be to his benefit (and even if he does win, he will ultimately end up paying for 1/8 the legal fees incurred by the Board as the reserve will need to be replenished).

 

[jamnmon66]

OP... Please update. What happened?

 

[Monkey]

Also curious to know what happened... I spent several years of my life fighting an irrational HOA headed up by a handful of old curmudgeons that didn’t like my wife or I, or a few of the other younger families in the neighborhood. They lost every battle they tried to fight with me, but it was tiring. So glad I don’t live there anymore. I also own and manage several flex-lease / tenant finish properties, so I deal with modifications and condo mentalities on a daily basis.

Anyway, the HOA (or Condo board in this case) can’t deny the OP his charger installation. The only thing they can dictate is how the wiring is run, if it requires any modification to the building structure. And in the case of drilling a single hole that has no structural implications, they would be hard pressed to come up with any real grounds by which to force the OP to remove and redo it. I think I agree with some of the other opinions that people are perhaps using this as an excuse to oust him as board president or whatever. Also, the OP goofed by not going through the proper due process for this.

Coming from a “been there, done that” perspective, I’ve learned that in these situations one has to follow all the procedures by the letter or someone with their own agenda will try to screw it up.

 

[Point 3]

When I lived in a house with an HOA, I could do whatever I wanted to the interior. But anything that I wanted to do to that could be viewed from the street had to be approved, via a written request. If I wanted to build a fence, add a structure (such as a treehouse, children's playset, shed, bedroom addition), change more than 25% of the landscaping, change a facade, paint the house, etc... all of that required a written request to the HOA architectural committee, giving them 30 days to review and approve/reject.

So, no, he very likely did not go through the approval process that his HOA has. As president of the HOA, he of all people should be very aware of the approval process.

And when I lived in a house with an HOA there were over 240 units, I believe the OP said there are 8 units in his.
This may or may not have a bearing on structured their regulations are.

 

[CameronB]

I was tangentially involved with a company that developed software to help manage HOAs. I can definitely say that the rules, processes, sophistication, committees/lack of committees, etc. all vary quite a bit. By state, by size and other factors. There is not a "standard template" that all HOAs follow for process. Especially for small associations, some we came across were extremely minimalist and relatively casual. Associations under 50 members are the long tail in the US and represent quite a chunk of total associations (I'd have to consult my few years old sources to quote the actual %).

 

[llmoser]

"They ran the wiring on the outside of the building" this is the issue the HOA members are objecting to. Ultimately this would likely have been approved if there was no other reasonable alternative. You can ask if there is anything you can do to make the wiring blend in better. That might help soothe the ruffled feathers.
Your city may have required a permit for the electrician to do this. You may have an issue when you sell your unit if there is no permit. You can check. You will want documentation from the HOA meeting showing how this issue was ultimately resolved, for purpose of selling your unit in the future.
I live in LA County in a 12 unit condo complex with attached garages, built in 1985 with an older electric system that is adequate, but somewhat less than ideal capacity. The electrician was able to run a cable from my indoors circuit breaker box to my garage, rather than run a cable from the main breaker box along the exterior of the building to the garage, which was also considered. Each HOA member/unit has individual meters.
The larger issue is what if additional owners want to install a NEMA outlet in their units? Would the HOA main breaker box support this without an upgrade to the main breaker box for the complex?
In the case of my building, if more than one or two more owners install a NEMA outlet the main building breaker box *will* need an upgrade. Who will pay for this? There are several possible answers.
This could be a relevant issue in the future but who knows how long. In the meantime you are in a sweet spot as the first owner who installed the outlet, and there was capacity available. The HOA should be mindful of adding the issue of future owners wanting to do what you have done, to their list of possible future expenses.

 

[Electroman]

ok.. alright.. Where is OP ?