Installed larger system from another company since Tesla wouldn't change design

[sunbear]

The solar part of my system consists of 42 LG 360W panels (15.12kW system) with 42 Enphase IQ7PLUS micro inverters. Although Tesla had the lowest quote, I went with a non-Tesla solar company because Tesla was only able to put a 11kW system on my roof at the most).

 

[jhn_]

The solar part of my system consists of 42 LG 360W panels (15.12kW system) with 42 Enphase IQ7PLUS micro inverters. Although Tesla had the lowest quote, I went with a non-Tesla solar company because Tesla was only able to put a 11kW system on my roof at the most).

I don’t understand the math going on here. Tesla uses 340w panels so how could they not fit 42 (for 14.28kw) of them on your roof while the installer you chose could fit 42 of them?

 

[sunbear]

I don’t understand the math going on here. Tesla uses 340w panels so how could they not fit 42 (for 14.28kw) of them on your roof while the installer you chose could fit 42 of them?

Mathematically Tesla may have been able to actual fit 45 panels yielding a 15.3kW system. Since they would not visit on site to accurately measure my roofs, I did it myself.

On each side of my garage roof this would have been possible:

• 1030mm x 6 panels wide / 25.4 inches per mm = 243". Since the roof is 250" wide, this leaves 7" spare
• 1740mm x 2 panels long / 25.4 inches per mm = 137". Since the roof is 139" long, this leaves 2" spare

A similar calculation for the main house roof which is 26 feet x 19 feet shows that 7 rows of 3 could have fit.

I went back and forth with my Tesla Project Advisor (very hard to get a response btw) and he then discussed with the Design Team. Initially they claimed I couldn't fit more panels because of fire setback rules in the state code. After I sent them the relevant code to prove that there were no fire setbacks required in my case, they said it still couldn't fit. I asked them to show me their calculations but they would not.

What I've learned from this experience:

1. Tesla provides a very low price for solar installs if you are happy to take whatever cookie cutter design they give and don't have any need to discuss/modify the initial design at all. Their strategy is basically to keep prices low by offering very little choices/variation in installs. You either have chocolate, strawberry or vanilla ice cream - take it or leave it!
2. Tesla solar doesn't use the latest and greatest solar technology (e.g. no micro-inverters, lower wattage panels with no upgrade options) but they use aesthetically pleasing components (all black panels with trim)
3. If you do want to talk to someone about your design, it is impossible to talk to anyone who actually can help. The Project Advisor's role seems mainly to shield the Design team from direct communication with Customers. The problem is that I think Tesla infuriates/loses a lot of customers in the process because they can't get their needs met

Tesla's 340W Hanwa panels are 1740mmx1030mm whereas LG's 360W panels are 1700mmx1016mm. It may well have been the case that
Hanwa panels together with Telsa's trim might not fit, but you can see that with the LG panels on my garage there's still a few inches of space on all sides.

 

[dareed1]

Interesting picture. My guess is that Tesla would consider this configuration to be problematic for worker safety during installation or if subsequent rooftop service were required.

 

[Mark_T]

I'd certainly be surprised if the install in the picture would have been code compliant on the main house, but it certainly made the difference on the number of panels you could fit onto that roof.

I'm guessing that rain water run-off is going to mostly miss the existing gutter though, and hopefully who ever fitted it is still going to be around to service it in the future if needed...

 

[h2ofun]

I'd certainly be surprised if the install in the picture would have been code compliant on the main house, but it certainly made the difference on the number of panels you could fit onto that roof.

I'm guessing that rain water run-off is going to mostly miss the existing gutter though, and hopefully who ever fitted it is still going to be around to service it in the future if needed...

I have seen a home in my area, that on the garage, have panels like that. I just keep asking, how would one safely ever work on the system? There is no where to stand. So even though I do not like the wasted space around my solar, I can see from a safety and maintenance angle it makes a lot of sense.

 

[jhn_]

@sunbear
That is a nice looking install. Thanks for the reply, everything you said is spot on with my solar experience with Tesla vs. other installers.

 

[sunbear]

Interesting picture. My guess is that Tesla would consider this configuration to be problematic for worker safety during installation or if subsequent rooftop service were required.

Worker safety wasn't the reason that Tesla gave me at least. (Tesla don't exactly have a stella record regarding worker safety - remember Elon refusing to stop production in Freemont during county Covid restrictions )

Tesla gave this as the reason for not adding more panels:

Township require solar installations abide by the Fire Setbacks set in the IFC 2018. This sets the precedent that any roof that has panels covering more than 33% of the roof, maintain a 36” setback from the lowest ridge of each side of the roof. Given this requirement we are unable to add more panels than what you have in your current layout.

However the New Jersey IFC 2018 code says that fire setbacks are not required on a detached garage, nor on a flat roof (like my main house roof).

IRC-2018 R324.6 Roof Access and Pathways seems to indicate that setbacks are not required on a detached garage, nor on a main house like mine with a 1.3:12 roof pitch:

Roof access, pathways and setback requirements shall be provided in accordance with Sections R324.6.1 through R324.6.2.1. Access and minimum spacing shall be required to provide emergency access to the roof, to provide pathways to specific areas of the roof, provide for smoke ventilation opportunity areas, and to provide emergency egress from the roof.

------------------------
Exceptions:

1. Detached, non-habitable structures, including but not limited to detached garages, parking shade structures, carports, solar trellises and similar structures, shall not be required to provide roof access.
2. Roof access, pathways and setbacks need not be provided where the code official has determined that rooftop operations will not be employed.
3. These requirements shall not apply to roofs with slopes of two units vertical in 12 units horizontal (17-percent slope) or less.

----------------------

Tesla solar lost a lot of credibility in my eyes when it became clear that they were not sufficiently knowledgeable about code to produce an optimal design.

 

[sunbear]

I'm guessing that rain water run-off is going to mostly miss the existing gutter though, and hopefully who ever fitted it is still going to be around to service it in the future if needed...

It's raining right now and thankfully not missing the gutter on either side.

The company I used covers New Jersey area and has been around since 2009. I talked with 5 different companies and the guys I went with were the most knowledgeable by a long shot, only use employees (no subcontractors) and also the most accommodating. Also they are certified Tesla Powerwall Installers. The systems they install have a 25 year warranty.
PM me if anyone would like me to put them in touch.

 

[FurryOne]

1. If you do want to talk to someone about your design, it is impossible to talk to anyone who actually can help. The Project Advisor's role seems mainly to shield the Design team from direct communication with Customers.

This may have been your case and others, but I had no problem getting my design changed. In fact, I took their layout, and used a drawing program to change the layout, then called and spoke to an advisor (not MY advisor, but an advisor nonetheless), and emailed him my change in the morning, and got the adjusted change posted by the Design Team that night.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

This may have been your case and others, but I had no problem getting my design changed. In fact, I took their layout, and used a drawing program to change the layout, then called and spoke to a rep (not MY rep, but a rep nonetheless), and emailed him my change in the morning, and got the adjusted change posted by the Design Team that night.

We didn't have any problem getting our design changed either, but maybe things have changed since 2018. We kept requesting a the largest system possible and indicated we had cut down a tree, etc. and they changed the design multiple times. We were able to choose from at least a couple different panels (315W or 325W) and went with the 325W since we wanted the most production possible.

In 2019 when we added on to our system, we requested different panels and were again able to choose between 2 or 3 different solar panels. We opted for the same high efficiency ones that we'd had installed in 2018.

 

[sunbear]

This may have been your case and others, but I had no problem getting my design changed. In fact, I took their layout, and used a drawing program to change the layout, then called and spoke to an advisor (not MY advisor, but an advisor nonetheless), and emailed him my change in the morning, and got the adjusted change posted by the Design Team that night.

Perhaps that's where I went wrong - I should have redrawn the layout for them.

I don't know whether the Project Advisors become more useful after the design phase, but I personally think Tesla would have a better process all around if they just cut out the middle man Project Advisor.

Since tesla has a strong software capability. my suggestion to Tesla would be to develop a collaborative software workflow allowing the customer to share design options directly with the Design team and get feedback and alternative options back from the Design team. i.e. Let the customer move around the panels on an interactive diagram like this Aurora picture below (provided by the installer I used in the end). The great things about Aurora are:

1. It has up to date aerial imagery (more up to date than google maps for my property at least)
2. It shows which roof surfaces provide the most sunlight
3. It can estimate your first year system kWh output and lifetime output

Ideally the program would eventually be sophisticated enough to only allow panel locations that were code compliant.

 

[h2ofun]

Perhaps that's where I went wrong - I should have redrawn the layout for them.

I don't know whether the Project Advisors become more useful after the design phase, but I personally think Tesla would have a better process all around if they just cut out the middle man Project Advisor.

Since tesla has a strong software capability. my suggestion to Tesla would be to develop a collaborative software workflow allowing the customer to share design options directly with the Design team and get feedback and alternative options back from the Design team. i.e. Let the customer move around the panels on an interactive diagram like this Aurora picture below (provided by the installer I used in the end). The great things about Aurora are:

1. It has up to date aerial imagery (more up to date than google maps for my property at least)
2. It shows which roof surfaces provide the most sunlight
3. It can estimate your first year system kWh output and lifetime output

Ideally the program would eventually be sophisticated enough to only allow panel locations that were code compliant.
View attachment 659775

Those house panels would not be approved here. They need at least 3 feet on all 4 sides. Garage, I guess one can stack as many as one can fits, if detached.

 

[FurryOne]

Perhaps that's where I went wrong - I should have redrawn the layout for them.

I don't know whether the Project Advisors become more useful after the design phase, but I personally think Tesla would have a better process all around if they just cut out the middle man Project Advisor.

I had my layout already for them because i'd already gone through the panel layout previously, having gone from panels to roof, back to panels (no roof installers in my area), so it was easy to me to just use my original layout.

Yes, you'd think that a Company that's so software savvy would have figured out a more streamlined, accurate method by now.

 

[sunbear]

Those house panels would not be approved here. They need at least 3 feet on all 4 sides. Garage, I guess one can stack as many as one can fits, if detached.

Maybe that's also part of the problem - probably all the tesla solar designers live in California and only know California code.

 

[jjrandorin]

Maybe that's also part of the problem - probably all the tesla solar designers live in California and only know California code.

Whenever I talked to tesla energy, I always got las vegas if I was not talking to the direct installers, so I am not sure about that.

 

[sunbear]

Whenever I talked to tesla energy, I always got las vegas if I was not talking to the direct installers, so I am not sure about that.

Yes, I believe you are correct now you mention it.

 

[Uncle Paul]

When I ordered my Solar System from Tesla, they quoted based on aerial imagery. Prior to installation they sent out an inspector that actually went on the roof, and modified the original layout due to first hand inspection.

OP might be getting a solar system that fits the letter of the law where he resides, but problems over the year may make repairs and servicing hazardous or impossible.

 

[Cshama]

I ended up paying $1.17 a watt for a local company install compared to the Tesla quote of $1 a watt.

Very glad I did. Tesla are non responsive. Zero customer service. Cookie cutter designs.

 

[Electrph]

I ended up paying $1.17 a watt for a local company install compared to the Tesla quote of $1 a watt.

Very glad I did. Tesla are non responsive. Zero customer service. Cookie cutter designs.

i would guess this cookie cutter approach is reason tesla mistated regulations in op's area .. assuming same regs as "most" areas and not wanting to put in extra work to find out otherwise .. once again Tesla energy great for some .. not so much for others