Installing a Wall Connector (or a 14-50) on a Full Breaker Panel question

[Jxtheone]

If you have 200Amp service, these are handy: Has pass through lugs or you can add a 100 Amp breaker to feed existing panel (is the current panel 100A?, I saw a mention but only in a reply) and also add an EVSE circuit. Note that if you go this route, you must convert to separate neutral and ground feeds and isolate the neutrals in the existing panel.

Siemens PL Series 200 Amp 8-Space 16-Circuit Main Breaker Outdoor Trailer Panel Load Center-PW0816B1200TC - The Home Depot

You can also get a generator interlock kit for backup power.

Yes, the current panel is 100A.

So I would essentially then be using the current panel as a subpanel? Does that sound like the right thinking?

The cost to that seems cheaper than I would had expected, suppost most of the cost will come from the work done and any additional wiring then?

I'm not sure about wanting a generator kit for backup power, there isn't too much space where the meters and AC units are located, and don't know much about this (also trying to save $ as much as possible).

 

[Jxtheone]

Also, I found out there is an unused meter space (for the whole complex) that I could also use and pay as a residential unit (as long as its under my name not a company name) which means I can have a free nights contract, so basically charging at night would only cost me $19/mo plus tax vs estimated $16 on average/mo plus tax using my current service. Not huge diff imo, still way cheaper than gas ($70-$90/mo for me).

So, would it likely be less expensive to activate the complex's meter, $49 to install, (and likely buy a new breaker panel since I see none out there for this unit), and install a wall connector directly from it. (and pay a constant $19/mo + tax for unlimited overnight charging and maybe get some free additional lights activated for the parking lot).
OR
Use my current main meter and buy a new 200amp panel that feeds 100Amp to my current breaker panel box and add the EVSE circuit to it and install the wall connector from there. (and likely pay a few $ less on average monthly)

 

[mongo]

Yes, the current panel is 100A.

So I would essentially then be using the current panel as a subpanel? Does that sound like the right thinking?

The cost to that seems cheaper than I would had expected, suppost most of the cost will come from the work done and any additional wiring then?

I'm not sure about wanting a generator kit for backup power, there isn't too much space where the meters and AC units are located, and don't know much about this (also trying to save $ as much as possible).

With the existing panel being 100A, you wouldn't need the feed through lug feature, it could be fed from a 100 Amp breaker instead.
Right, your currently main panel would become a subpanel.
Cost would be new panel, wires to feed exiting panel, and updates to existing panel for the isolated neutral bus. (plus the new run for the EVSE)
The generator kit is a metal interlock that selects between the main breaker and the generator breaker, only other piece needed is a generator outlet plug (for portable generators).

So, would it likely be less expensive to activate the complex's meter, $49 to install, (and likely buy a new breaker panel since I see none out there for this unit), and install a wall connector directly from it. (and pay a constant $19/mo + tax for unlimited overnight charging and maybe get some free additional lights activated for the parking lot).

Thant sounds good, too.

Given you are in an apartment/ condo, you may need approval for whatever you want to do...

 

[Rocky_H]

Based on that AC unit info and since it says min 45Amps, could that 60amp connection be somehow split to 45amps for the AC unit, and 15amps to the Wall Connector?

Yes, you can absolutely do this. Your electrician was partially right and partially wrong. The 13A and 47A thing is nonsense. You don't get to share circuits like that. But looking at the very detailed rating plate of the A/C, it does say that 45A is the minimum breaker size, so the suggestion about using that box as a subpanel could be correctly done. It has a 60A line run to it, and then it would get two circuits on separate breakers that would come from that: a 45A and a 15A, which feed the air conditioner and Tesla wall connector.

So if the wiring and location is better to do it from that box, then this should be a legitimate and inexpensive way to do it, if the 240V 15A circuit would be fast enough charging for you.

 

[nwdiver]

With the existing panel being 100A, you wouldn't need the feed through lug feature, it could be fed from a 100 Amp breaker instead.
Right, your currently main panel would become a subpanel.

Both panels would be electrically identical. You wouldn't really have a 'main' or 'sub' panel since the second panel is independent of the first. BOTH panels are fed from the meter base. I don't know where the N-G bond would be.

So then, if I already have a 100A breaker box, I can theoretically get a subpanel that goes directly from the meter base that can be as big as a 100A one?

Yep... don't need anything fancy... just a line splitter. Second panel would be wired just like the first; Your electrician should be able to hook you up...

 

[mongo]

Both panels would be electrically identical. You wouldn't really have a 'main' or 'sub' panel since the second panel is independent of the first. BOTH panels are fed from the meter base. I don't know where the N-G bond would be.

I'm talking about adding an exterior panel between the meter and the existing panel. Otherwise, there are two breakers in separate locations needed to de-energize the structure.

 

[nwdiver]

I'm talking about adding an exterior panel between the meter and the existing panel. Otherwise, there are two breakers in separate locations needed to de-energize the structure.

That's pretty common. And to de-energize the structure FD protocol is to pull the meter... which would de-energize everything.

I know a guy that just built a house with this setup. 3 Panels all fed independently from the meter.

 

[Jxtheone]

Given you are in an apartment/ condo, you may need approval for whatever you want to do...

yeah, not entirely sure how to go about this, its both an issue and a nonissue, lol. We own our condo, and every condo has a different owner (most rent it out so don't live there and don't care about stuff, just don't want to pay extra for anything). We used to have an association, but that didn't last long as no one wanted to pay nor handle the management. We are pretty much our own for making changes/installs, and need to get lucky if we want others to help pay for anything (like getting the grass cut to avoid city fine, only like 5 out of the 8 help pay for it monthly).

 

[mongo]

That's pretty common. And to de-energize the structure FD protocol is to pull the meter base... which would de-energize everything.

Huh, NEC isn't a fan:

Section 230.72(A) of the Code addresses the grouping requirements quite specifically and simply. The general rules are that the two to six service disconnects permitted in 230.71 must be grouped in the same location, either in a single enclosure or in separate enclosures located adjacent to each other.

What Constitutes Grouping? | Electrical Contractor Magazine

Although I have seen large industrial buildings with placarded info panel stating when there are multiple disconnects/ feeds. Also when there are solar or generator feeds, so it's do-able.

 

[nwdiver]

Huh, NEC isn't a fan:

What Constitutes Grouping? | Electrical Contractor Magazine

Although I have seen large industrial buildings with placarded info panel stating when there are multiple disconnects/ feeds. Also when there are solar or generator feeds, so it's do-able.

Wonder if pulling the meter counts. A fire is the only scenario where I would think that's important and talking to Fire Fighters they won't even bother with main breakers which are often inside the home. Why risk life and limb searching for a breaker when the meter is usually easy to find outside? Breakers also don't give visible confirmation with physical separation. An empty meter base does.

 

[mongo]

Wonder if pulling the meter counts. A fire is the only scenario where I would think that's important and talking to Fire Fighters they won't even bother with main breakers which are often inside the home. Why risk life and limb searching for a breaker when the meter is usually easy to find outside? Breakers also don't give visible confirmation with physical separation. An empty meter base does.

It's not as ready access, but pulling the meter is a heck of a lot faster and more sure than finding the panel in a basement or burning house.

 

[nwdiver]

It's not as ready access, but pulling the meter is a heck of a lot faster and more sure than finding the panel in a basement or burning house.

Yep... that's why I hate the stupid AC disco for PV systems the NFPA wants. Guarantee those discos will NEVER be used. There's really no reason to ever use it. Linemen rely on UL1741 for safety, they've worked on the lines near my house... no one came over to open my PV disconnect and fire fighters won't bother with it either...

 

[mongo]

Yep... that's why I hate the stupid AC disco for PV systems the NFPA wants. Guarantee those discos will NEVER be used. There's really no reason to ever use it. Linemen rely on UL1741 for safety, they've worked on the lines near my house... no one came over to open my PV disconnect and fire fighters won't bother with it either...

For grid tied systems sure, but for system with islanding mode (such as with Powerwalls), they are important.
(any you don't want to have to deal with the issue of when the meter base itself is the thing arcing...)

 

[Jxtheone]

Both panels would be electrically identical. You wouldn't really have a 'main' or 'sub' panel since the second panel is independent of the first. BOTH panels are fed from the meter base. I don't know where the N-G bond would be.
Yep... don't need anything fancy... just a line splitter. Second panel would be wired just like the first; Your electrician should be able to hook you up...

So IF I were to do this install myself (or got a newbie electrician -licensed though etc), what would be easier/simpler/safer?

a) Split the AC connection to 45amp and 15amp, 45 to AC and 15 to wall connector, via a "subpanel?" (I think this might be what the electrician referred to as the inverter or converter maybe), and 11mi/hr is certainly plenty for me, 3-4mi/hr may be cutting it too close, but I only have a 20mi commute, could be double on days I go shopping or elsewhere.

OR

b) Add a 100Amp box via a line splitter from the main meter, which would add a $200-$300 cost (estimate given to me for this, includes panel and wiring). Would be nice for have much faster charging just in case, but likely won't need often unless I have an unplanned trip (though there is a supercharger somewhat close by).

Thoughts?

 

[nwdiver]

So IF I were to do this install myself (or got a newbie electrician -licensed though etc), what would be easier/simpler/safer?

a) Split the AC connection to 45amp and 15amp, 45 to AC and 15 to wall connector, via a "subpanel?" (I think this might be what the electrician referred to as the inverter or converter maybe), and 11mi/hr is certainly plenty for me, 3-4mi/hr may be cutting it too close, but I only have a 20mi commute, could be double on days I go shopping or elsewhere.

OR

b) Add a 100Amp box via a line splitter from the main meter, which would add a $200-$300 cost (estimate given to me for this, includes panel and wiring). Would be nice for have much faster charging just in case, but likely won't need often unless I have an unplanned trip (though there is a supercharger somewhat close by).

Thoughts?

I think your best bet of being closer to code compliant is option (b). Option (b) doesn't really need another panel.. you just need overcurrent protection. A fused disconnect can accomplish that. OR an RV box. Shouldn't cost >$200 in materials.

 

[Jxtheone]

I think your best bet of being closer to code compliant is option (b). Option (b) doesn't really need another panel.. you just need overcurrent protection. A fused disconnect can accomplish that. OR an RV box. Shouldn't cost >$200 in materials.

Thx, sounds good!

So just to be make sure, have a fused disconnect, such as the OR and RV box you linked, should be enough, and connect the Wall Connecter (HPWC) from there, and there wouldn't be a need to make any changes to my current 100A panel since its not gonna be a subpanel? If so, this does sound like a pretty simple job.

Also, should the HPWC (wall connector) be connected at 100A, just in case in the future I want to link a second one, or a dual charger model S/X wants to charge at my place? Or connect it at just 60A since thats really the max I would use (which means just using 48amps, 80%)?

 

[mongo]

I think your best bet of being closer to code compliant is option (b). Option (b) doesn't really need another panel.. you just need overcurrent protection. A fused disconnect can accomplish that. OR an RV box. Shouldn't cost >$200 in materials.

But if it is connected to the meter, does it need to be service rated? The interrupt rating is higher for the first breaker, I believe.

 

[nwdiver]

Thx, sounds good!

So just to be make sure, have a fused disconnect, such as the OR and RV box you linked, should be enough, and connect the Wall Connecter (HPWC) from there, and there wouldn't be a need to make any changes to my current 100A panel since its not gonna be a subpanel? If so, this does sound like a pretty simple job.

Also, should the HPWC (wall connector) be connected at 100A, just in case in the future I want to link a second one, or a dual charger model S/X wants to charge at my place? Or connect it at just 60A since thats really the max I would use (which means just using 48amps, 80%)?

The RV Box plus a HPWC would give you a lot more flexibility for slightly more $$ since it comes with a NEMA 14-50 and NEMA 5-20. We recently installed a HPWC / RV Box combo. Run #3 THHN from the Meter base to a 100A breaker in the RV box to provide over current protection then run the HPWC directly off the main lugs with #3 in the RV Box. The 100A Breaker would be a 'sub-main' so it needs to be secured to the panel. This would give you a maxed out HPWC and a 14-50 for backup.

But if it is connected to the meter, does it need to be service rated? The interrupt rating is higher for the first breaker, I believe.

Not sure about that... that would be a question for his electrician. A couple feet of service rated wire wouldn't be too expensive...