Installing EV Charger now or Wait till Solar + PW is installed?

[KHYE]

So, my 10.2kw + 1 PW+ system order since Sept 2021 is still pending installation. The permit is finally approved 2 weeks ago but Tesla is giving me installation date of June 2022....I'm glad that NEM 3 date is being postponed now so I have more time, I almost gave up the project at one point.

I don't have an EV and plan to get one down the road, I have no idea when since I'm working from home and barely drive. I read that it's very painful to get EV charger installed after the solar system is installed. I have an old 100 A panel and a sub panel. Tesla design didn't call for panel upgrade and it's a whole house back up.

Since installation date is so far away, should I even think about getting one installed now, probably a NEMA 14-50 outlet or don't even bother. I would think Tesla will have to update their design documents and update the permit accordingly.

Thanks.

 

[jboy210]

So, my 10.2kw + 1 PW+ system order since Sept 2021 is still pending installation. The permit is finally approved 2 weeks ago but Tesla is giving me installation date of June 2022....I'm glad that NEM 3 date is being postponed now so I have more time, I almost gave up the project at one point.

I don't have an EV and plan to get one down the road, I have no idea when since I'm working from home and barely drive. I read that it's very painful to get EV charger installed after the solar system is installed. I have an old 100 A panels and a sub panels. Tesla design didn't call for panel upgrade and it's a whole house back up.

Since installation date is so far away, should I even think about getting one installed now, probably a NEMA 14-50 outlet or don't even bother. I would think Tesla will have to update their design documents and update the permit accordingly.

Thanks.

There is nothing wrong with adding a Nema 14-50. Most EVs come with a converter that will work with one. And you can take up arc welding until you buy an EV.

 

[jjrandorin]

If you are ever going to want an outlet, I would get it now. Note that it doesnt have to be a "14-50" thats just what everyone mentions if its an outlet. You could lower amp outlet, as long as its 240v. Whatever wouldnt require a panel upgrade, per the load calcs etc.

I would look at a 240v 30amp outlet if a 14-50 wont work, but in either case I would do it now if you ever want it done. It isnt easy to add stuff "later". its either "kinda hard" or "mostly impossible" or somewhere in between there, especially on the backup loads side.

 

[h2ofun]

So, my 10.2kw + 1 PW+ system order since Sept 2021 is still pending installation. The permit is finally approved 2 weeks ago but Tesla is giving me installation date of June 2022....I'm glad that NEM 3 date is being postponed now so I have more time, I almost gave up the project at one point.

I don't have an EV and plan to get one down the road, I have no idea when since I'm working from home and barely drive. I read that it's very painful to get EV charger installed after the solar system is installed. I have an old 100 A panel and a sub panel. Tesla design didn't call for panel upgrade and it's a whole house back up.

Since installation date is so far away, should I even think about getting one installed now, probably a NEMA 14-50 outlet or don't even bother. I would think Tesla will have to update their design documents and update the permit accordingly.

Thanks.

Do together. I am having a hard time doing after the fact

 

[jrweiss98020]

To add another 50A circuit to a 100A panel, you will likely require an upgraded panel. if you get everything done at once as part of the solar install, it will all be subject to the federal tax credit.

 

[Vines]

So, my 10.2kw + 1 PW+ system order since Sept 2021 is still pending installation. The permit is finally approved 2 weeks ago but Tesla is giving me installation date of June 2022....I'm glad that NEM 3 date is being postponed now so I have more time, I almost gave up the project at one point.

I don't have an EV and plan to get one down the road, I have no idea when since I'm working from home and barely drive. I read that it's very painful to get EV charger installed after the solar system is installed. I have an old 100 A panel and a sub panel. Tesla design didn't call for panel upgrade and it's a whole house back up.

Since installation date is so far away, should I even think about getting one installed now, probably a NEMA 14-50 outlet or don't even bother. I would think Tesla will have to update their design documents and update the permit accordingly.

Thanks.

The only issue you might have is the load calculations to justify the car charger might not fly. That depends on your loads but 100A is a smallish service size. You might go with a smaller outlet, or an HPWC set to a lower amperage in order to pass those load calculations. You could likely justify a 16A charge rate and 20A 240v circuit.

It's better to coordinate now, but it will delay your project further especially in LA. It was even better to coordinate when you submitted for the permit the first time.

 

[holeydonut]

If you are ever going to want an outlet, I would get it now. Note that it doesnt have to be a "14-50" thats just what everyone mentions if its an outlet. You could lower amp outlet, as long as its 240v. Whatever wouldnt require a panel upgrade, per the load calcs etc.

I would look at a 240v 30amp outlet if a 14-50 wont work, but in either case I would do it now if you ever want it done. It isnt easy to add stuff "later". its either "kinda hard" or "mostly impossible" or somewhere in between there, especially on the backup loads side.

Yep, here's my hair-pulling thread trying to get a TWC (I dumbly called it a HPWC) installed after Powerwalls.

You gotta be kidding me. Electricians won't add a Tesla wall connector on the backup side of ESS

I just need to vent at this point... PV+ESS = sucks. Real hard. So I got a whole house backup from Sunrun. But I'm doubly-stupid because I did this before I actually bought an EV and got an EV charger installed. Now that Sunrun has done their whole house backup, the electricians I've asked...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[KHYE]

Thank you everyone for your input. I will try to get a quote from electrician.

 

[KHYE]

The only issue you might have is the load calculations to justify the car charger might not fly. That depends on your loads but 100A is a smallish service size. You might go with a smaller outlet, or an HPWC set to a lower amperage in order to pass those load calculations. You could likely justify a 16A charge rate and 20A 240v circuit.

It's better to coordinate now, but it will delay your project further especially in LA. It was even better to coordinate when you submitted for the permit the first time.

@Vines

Here are the diagrams and load calculations (not sure how accurate it's, done by Tesla). The spa was removed but somehow they included in the load calculation and insisted that I removed the 60A circuit breaker for the spa from the subpanel in the garage.

Based on these info, do you think i can install an EV charger outlet without upgrading the main panel? Also, should this EV charging outlet on the PW backup?

 

[Vines]

@Vines

Here are the diagrams and load calculations (not sure how accurate it's, done by Tesla). The spa was removed but somehow they included in the load calculation and insisted that I removed the 60A circuit breaker for the spa from the subpanel in the garage.

Based on these info, do you think i can install an EV charger outlet without upgrading the main panel? Also, should this EV charging outlet on the PW backup?

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Without the Spa you could make some car charging work, though maybe not the full 40A.

 

[Eric99]

Piggybacking on this because im in a similar situation. I have a roof on order( 9kw with 2PW)Site survey is in a few weeks. I have a meter main and 100A service. Subpanel is upstairs and full.

I would like to have a 14-50 outlet installed in the garage.(and backed up?)
When should i bring this up? During the site survey? I cannot install it now due to lack of space in subpanel and location. Will they add this to the backup panel?
Hopefully im asking the right questions.

Thanks for the help.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

Piggybacking on this because im in a similar situation. I have a roof on order( 9kw with 2PW)Site survey is in a few weeks. I have a meter main and 100A service. Subpanel is upstairs and full.

I would like to have a 14-50 outlet installed in the garage.(and backed up?)
When should i bring this up? During the site survey? I cannot install it now due to lack of space in subpanel and location. Will they add this to the backup panel?
Hopefully im asking the right questions.

Thanks for the help.

Depends who “they” is. If it’s Tesla, they’d be glad to put in a Tesla Wall Connector. The surveyor will hopefully ask, and be frank with him/her. The point is not to have anyone redo/rework their load calculations and design work. When I had solar installed, Sunworks helped me get started with the 14-50 EVCS while waiting for the solar city inspector to arrive (I needed that subpanel Sunworks added). Fast forward to adding ESS, I had Tesla add TWC as well. Though the load calc didn’t add up for 200A service the city inspector waved it thru when I as a homeowner brought it up. (Yeah, I like leaning hard onto the inspectors potentially sabotaging my own projects.) It’s cool to be upfront.

 

[KHYE]

So, from reading other threads and if I read them correctly, it seems like:

1) It's ideal to have the EV charger circuit/breaker installed in the backup load center. So, you can see the usage on your Tesla apps and when the grid is down, you can still charge your EV.

2) But it's also ok to install the EV charger circuit on the main breaker, the downside is you won't see the usage in the Tesla app and you can't charge EV when the grid is down.

I'm ok with either option as long as solar system can charge EV during daytime. I emailed one local electrician and asked for a quote to install the EV charger outlet and shared with him the diagrams shown here. His advice is for me to wait till Tesla is done since the load calculation and permit has to be updated.

I guess people here advised to get it done now before the system is installed because Tesla will slap on the "do not add new load" sticker and no one would dare to add new circuit to the backup load center, the only option is to add new circuit to the main panel and won't be backed up, Is this the correct understanding?

Thanks.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

Definitely upsides and downsides with having EVCS on the backup panel. Biggest downside is what if you are charging and then a power outage occurs. On the Tesla app, there’s a feature to avoid charging when the SOC is below a user-defined SOC. If I charge by mistake during an outage it’s all on me and I can’t send the power back to the ESS. I opted to have a Tesla EVCS on the main panel and a not normally used regular EVCS on the backup panel. I can last 2-3 days without charging the EV for my daily drive. The PW on the other hand is 1 day of backup depending on the weather. I’d be comfortable with putting an EVCS on the backup panel if I had a Powerpack! I even kept A/C off backup to avoid getting a new panel (cheap skate). Using a 125A branch circuit off the MLO main panel for my Powerwall system.

The Tesla app has a feature to track energy usage alone for the past 31 days. / If need to charge during an outage can always use the mobile connector to a house outlet, or add a 220V 6-20 outlet to avoid inefficient 120AC charging while keep amps low.

All good options: You could install the EVCS beforehand. You’d just have to retake the survey photos and provide them back to Tesla. You could ask Tesla to install the EVCS for you, or maybe a NEMA 14-50 outlet as an extra line item.

The city inspector didn’t really care that the my EVCS was connected even though the load calcs I know didn’t support it. Rattled off you have 200A service you are fine. Deep down, the aforementioned 125A branch breaker upstream for the breaker panel would have been a better technical answer.

 

[dancudds]

I opted to have a Tesla EVCS on the main panel and a not normally used regular EVCS on the backup panel.

Do you mean the other way around? Tesla app lets you stop charing during outage - does your regular?

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

Do you mean the other way around? Tesla app lets you stop charing during outage - does your regular?

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

I installed that way because the Tesla app didn’t have a feature to stop charging during an outage in 2019. My regular EVCS does have the ability to stop charge remotely, but not integrated with the PW. In practice, I would have to manually stop charging on my EV JuiceNet app once I have received a Tesla outage notice from Powerwall. / I am not confident of the new since 2019 feature due to unfamiliarity with how well the Powerwall system communicates with Tesla car. Is it directly via Bluetooth or over many hops and jumps on the Internet? Thinking more things bound to go haywire during widespread outages.

 

[morph3ous]

I think it communicates with the car through the powerline, but I’m not sure how. There was very little info out there about how it works when I researched 6 months ago or so. I did test it and it worked great.