2.4ghz makes the most sense because installations will usually be at the far end of a house in the garage or on the exterior of a home. 5ghz won't have that kind of reach.
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Installing Wall Charger vs Mobile Connector
- Thread starter YoYoMa
- Start date
2.4ghz makes the most sense because installations will usually be at the far end of a house in the garage or on the exterior of a home. 5ghz won't have that kind of reach.
geez, you're burning some E. looks pretty full. a bunch of tandem breakers as well. are they suggesting a 600 amp service?
recommending 400 amps service, currently I am at 200 amps.
Utility company says its free upgrade but panel replacement cost is over $5k
I was thinking to replace breaker 2 from the top right big breakers to tandem, but one electrician saying that its 240volts
Are tandem breakers not available for 240 volts?
Performance on 5 can be compromised by devices on 2.4 on many router designs, though that's more about the (not specified) protocol than the frequency. A lack of support for WPA3 and mesh (if true*) would force many to attach an AP just to service this antiquated design in an isolated network. I'd rather run cable with a device I don't trust.
* the problem with mesh as noted on the cars themselves concerns setups that use the same network name for 5 and 2.4, and the car tries to connect to the weaker 5 signal. Differentiate the names and that problems goes away. In my case, the entry point for broadband is < 10 ft from the car, so signal strength is not a concern.
ATPMSD
Active Member
You cannot run a 60a line to a 14-30 outlet as it is rated for 30a! Also, extension cords are a bad idea. You need a new subpanel. Perhaps you can T-off the new 400a service with one line going to your existing panel and another to a new panel. In this was you are adding a panel as opposed to upgrading it.
davewill
Active Member
exxxviii
Member
Best practice is to put both 5 GHz and and 2.4 GHz on the same SSID. Then the clients will choose the best frequency based on strength and demand. 2.4 is not antiquated and not going away - it is better than 5 in many environments. Each frequency band has their strengths. Finally, the presence of both will have no impact on a Tesla connecting, because the car only has a 2.4 GHz radio and will never try to connect to a 5 GHz signal.
The issues with mesh may not be general but a few specific mesh products. Those may not properly support the protocols. Or the car has some janky protocol the routers do not provide.
The car has a weak WiFi antenna. My outdoor cameras were all good to go on my 2.4 GHz network for my Unifi Dream Router but the car wouldn't stay connected. I added a Unifi U6 Extender in a mesh configuration in my kitchen and now the car gets around 3 bars signal while everything else even across the street gets full signal. And yes I've checked by parking the car towards and away from my house. It's just a poor antenna
If it doesn't support WPA3, it's antiquated. And if you don't have devices that need the reach of 2.4, turn it off. Keeps lurkers away, and less congestion for your neighbors.
Are you sure it doesn't have a 5 radio? The trouble cases people had were addressed by separating the SSID.
As the car doesn't need to be able to reach anything in the house, it is suitable for a guest network or standalone AP, along with the security cams and most of the IoT devices.
I’m checking this but if I must get a new subpanel, can you recommend a good smart subpanel that I can monitor energy consumption using an app?
There is no point spending money on emporia if I can have a smart subpanel
ATPMSD
Active Member
Not many things support WPA3 yet. I have a orbi mesh network, runs both 2.4 & 5ghz, lets the device choose which band it prefers. My cameras and doorbell need the range of 2.4, even with two orbi's blasting thru the house. I have a pretty strong password but I do wish Orbis allowed me to hide SSID, only thing I don't like about it
ATPMSD
Active Member
What is interesting is that if you setup your iPhone for a hidden SSID it will ping it at regular intervals looking for it, until it connects.
That's how any wifi works. Once you connect to a hidden network, your device will constantly look for it. Only thing hidden network does it blocks the name so humans dont know what it is, just an extra layer of security. Means nothing to your devices, after you connect once its just another access point
An average IT person will be able to find the hidden SSID. Devices running Windows 7 or later will often see a network, even if it isn't identified by name. Essentially, turning off your SSID might give you a false sense of security, but it won't keep you any safer from hackers.
Hiding an SSID does not provide true security because it only hides the network's name and not the actual network. In fact, hackers, or people with malicious intentions, will actively seek out networks with hidden names for several reasons.
Eric33432
Member
Did you do anything yet?
Your panels are pretty full, lots of tandem breakers. It *might* be time to upgrade to 400 amp service.
Most 400 amp service is actually two 200 amp panels, with a CL 320 meter and two 200 amp disconnects that feed each panel. If you do upgrade, I would not change out the big panel, I would only change the service (meter and main disconnects) to 400 amp capacity and then change out the smaller panel to be the second 200 amp panel (and a larger panel with more breaker positions). If the larger panel is overloaded you could move some of those circuits over to the new panel.
Note you have two 200 amp panels right now, but it appears the smaller panel is fed from the larger panel, so if that is the case, you only have 200 amps of capacity available.
But before you spend the money to upgrade your electrical service, do a load calculation. Download Mike Holt's electrical tool box and run it yourself. Electricians like to make money doing panel upgrades.
And you have very nice Square D QO panels which are among the best.
If you are close on the load calculation, like davewill says, you can go with 30 amps if you will be charging overnight. I charge at 48 amps and usually my MX only needs to charge for about 5 hours if it is at 30% (to get to 80%), much less time if it is at 50%. I figure about 5 minutes to raise the ~100 kWh battery by 1%. MY and M3 are faster. It could easily charge up on a 30 amp (24 amp charge rate) circuit from the time I get home and be at 80% the next morning.
If you do not upgrade your service, I have not seen 240 volt QO tandem breakers, but you could move 2 existing 120 volt circuits to tandem 120 volt QO breakers to free up two slots on your main panel. And I would do this on the main panel, as it looks like the smaller panel is probably just fed from your large panel with no more than a 100 amp breaker, possibly less than that.
I would install a Tesla Wall Connector, with a non-GFCI breaker of whatever amount of amps you have available pursuant to your load calculation. WC can be configured for 15 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 amps, all 240 volt.
But if you want you could install a 240 volt GFCI 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 amp circuit to the appropriate NEMA receptacle.
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Thank you for the follow up.
I installed the wall connector and have couple of charge cycles so far. I was waiting until I am more confident before I post the results. but since you inquired about it, Here you go.
Service upgrade to 400 amps isn't cost effective and I have no desire to spend around $7-9k just for the EV charger, if I had existing issues I would consider this option.
I was given the other two options, either upgrade my subpanel or use tandem breakers to make space on the larger panel and go from there.
I decided to try the route of tandem breakers and try since it was cost effective.
I downloaded Mike Holt's app and put my configurations in it, but honestly, I do not know what is the limit or what number I need to look to see if I hit the limit.
I used 6/2 wire 100 feet. used conduit in my garage. Electrician came and replace the 2 big breakers with tandem breaker and install the 60amps breaker for WC.
I have couple of charge cycles, there is no issue I see so far. I still have to further look and make sure there is no problem while running home appliances as well as EV charging at the same time to be 100% sure. Currently WC is charging on 48 amps. if I see issues, I will downgrade the amps.
As soon as I am certain of how the project turned out, I will publish additional information.
Eric33432
Member
I think you did good so far.
Putting in your electrical loads into the Electrical Toolbox can seem like a difficult process the first time you do it, but if you spend the time to examine all your electrical devices, it can be a very valuable thing to do. It should give you a simple answer. Scroll down to Copper Results, it should tell you the size service you require in amps.
You have a pretty "busy" electric panel, so your house may be bigger than 3500 s.f. or have other things like a pool (with pool pump or electric pool heater) or a hot tub, or whatever, but I have found that most people way overestimate the size of the electrical service they need. Then there are a few people underestimate the size of the service they need and have an overloaded service, but these are usually 100 amp services.
Running the toolbox for a 3500 s.f. house, with 2 4500 watt electric water heaters, 3 typical central air conditioners, 30,000 watts of electric heat, all the typical kitchen appliances with electric range, washer, electric dryer, and 1 48 amp EV charging circuit, still only requires a 200 amp service. The end result (scroll down to see this) was a Total Service Demand Load of 43,888 volt amps or 183 amps....therefore a 200 amp service.
One thing you can do is to schedule the car to charge late at night. In the Tesla app you can either tell it to start charging at a certain time, e.g. midnight, or tell it to be ready at a certain time, e.g. 8 AM. This may put less stress on your electrical system by charging when you are probably not using a lot of appliances, and will also be kind to the electric grid by chaging during off peak times. Even though I do not have time of day rates where I live, I do this because it makes sense to me to put as little stress on the grid as possible.
Even if you have two EVs, unless you max out your car's range capability daily, you can charge them every other day. Unless I know I am going to do a lot of driving the next day, I usually do not charge my MX unless it is below 50% so I only charge it every 3 or 4 days. Of course, your situation could be much more demanding.
One question: You said you used 6/2 wire and used conduit in your garage. Does this mean you did not use conduit elsewhere? If you used 6/2 THHN/THWN wire (individual wires) they need to be in conduit the entire run. Or you could have used MC cable, say in your basement, and then transitioned to conduit in your garage using a suitable junction box and hopefully split bolts or Polaris connectors to join the wires in the junction box. But if you used romex cable anywhere as part of the circuit, that is only suitable for a 50 amp breaker and 40 amp charging. If you can, post some photos of your installation.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
Putting in your electrical loads into the Electrical Toolbox can seem like a difficult process the first time you do it, but if you spend the time to examine all your electrical devices, it can be a very valuable thing to do. It should give you a simple answer. Scroll down to Copper Results, it should tell you the size service you require in amps.
You have a pretty "busy" electric panel, so your house may be bigger than 3500 s.f. or have other things like a pool (with pool pump or electric pool heater) or a hot tub, or whatever, but I have found that most people way overestimate the size of the electrical service they need. Then there are a few people underestimate the size of the service they need and have an overloaded service, but these are usually 100 amp services.
Running the toolbox for a 3500 s.f. house, with 2 4500 watt electric water heaters, 3 typical central air conditioners, 30,000 watts of electric heat, all the typical kitchen appliances with electric range, washer, electric dryer, and 1 48 amp EV charging circuit, still only requires a 200 amp service. The end result (scroll down to see this) was a Total Service Demand Load of 43,888 volt amps or 183 amps....therefore a 200 amp service.
One thing you can do is to schedule the car to charge late at night. In the Tesla app you can either tell it to start charging at a certain time, e.g. midnight, or tell it to be ready at a certain time, e.g. 8 AM. This may put less stress on your electrical system by charging when you are probably not using a lot of appliances, and will also be kind to the electric grid by chaging during off peak times. Even though I do not have time of day rates where I live, I do this because it makes sense to me to put as little stress on the grid as possible.
Even if you have two EVs, unless you max out your car's range capability daily, you can charge them every other day. Unless I know I am going to do a lot of driving the next day, I usually do not charge my MX unless it is below 50% so I only charge it every 3 or 4 days. Of course, your situation could be much more demanding.
One question: You said you used 6/2 wire and used conduit in your garage. Does this mean you did not use conduit elsewhere? If you used 6/2 THHN/THWN wire (individual wires) they need to be in conduit the entire run. Or you could have used MC cable, say in your basement, and then transitioned to conduit in your garage using a suitable junction box and hopefully split bolts or Polaris connectors to join the wires in the junction box. But if you used romex cable anywhere as part of the circuit, that is only suitable for a 50 amp breaker and 40 amp charging. If you can, post some photos of your installation.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
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