Installing Wall Connector is better than NEMA 14-50

[cybertruckgirl]

Question - picked up my model Y in Renton WA in early June. The mobile charging kit came with 3 items. The Tesla charger with a port to attach an adapter to plug into a wall and a second adapter for non Tesla public charger I assume. Question. Can someone please tell me the level of charger for adapter pin: 1067348-00-C
S/N:A2P220680004480.
Is this for level 2 non Tesla chargers that are not super chargers? Or? Could not find the C pin on line that explains this adapter. Thank you

 

[ucmndd]

Question - picked up my model Y in Renton WA in early June. The mobile charging kit came with 3 items. The Tesla charger with a port to attach an adapter to plug into a wall and a second adapter for non Tesla public charger I assume. Question. Can someone please tell me the level of charger for adapter pin: 1067348-00-C
S/N:A2P220680004480.
Is this for level 2 non Tesla chargers that are not super chargers? Or? Could not find the C pin on line that explains this adapter. Thank you

You’re referring to the “J1772” adapter. This is to charge your car at level 2 speeds at public L2 chargers or other non-Tesla EVSEs.

 

[Rocky_H]

do you have the exact wording in the code? somewhere in article 625? all i can find is for EVPE where you are providing bi-directional power.. not the case for Teslas

Yes, it's 625.54

"625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel."

Here's a reference page about it:

625 Electric Vehicle Charging System.

Wireless Power Transfer (WPT) uses induction to transfer electrical energy from the power source to the vehicle.

www.electricallicenserenewal.com

 

[rjpjnk]

Why would a higher voltage system (over 150v) if it existed be excluded? Just curious.

 

[jcanoe]

Why would a higher voltage system (over 150v) if it existed be excluded? Just curious.

Maybe because it is single-phase, i.e. for residential applications where no single wire carries more than 150V (typically ~120V as measured to ground.)

 

[gt2690b]

Yes, it's 625.54

"625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel."

Here's a reference page about it:

625 Electric Vehicle Charging System.

Wireless Power Transfer (WPT) uses induction to transfer electrical energy from the power source to the vehicle.

www.electricallicenserenewal.com

I think what you quoted was the amendment to the 2017 NEC...

2020 code states in 210.8(F) All outdoor outlets for dwellings..., that are supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less, shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

This implies even the WC if installed outdoors would require a GFCI

 

[davewill]

I think this was the amendment to the 2017 NEC...

2020 code states in 210.8(F) All outdoor outlets for dwellings..., that are supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less, shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

This implies even the WC if installed outdoors would require a GFCI

I don't think so. It says outdoor outlets, and the wall connector wouldn't use an outlet. The Tesla plug itself is protected by GFCI, but that's not due to that rules, but other rules about EVSEs in general.

 

[MacO512]

Why would a higher voltage system (over 150v) if it existed be excluded? Just curious.

The wording on that can be confusing, people think it means 240volt service is excluded.

That is not the case, the rule includes 240volt. As each wire is within 150 volts to ground, and the two 120 volt wires together add up to 240 volts.

 

[gt2690b]

I don't think so. It says outdoor outlets, and the wall connector wouldn't use an outlet. The Tesla plug itself is protected by GFCI, but that's not due to that rules, but other rules about EVSEs in general.

the WC is an outlet.. an outlet is defined as “A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment”... they purposely didn't use the term receptacle in this section of the code... and the WC itself doesn't preclude the raceway and mounting that presents the hazard

 

[davewill]

the WC is an outlet.. an outlet is defined as “A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment”... they purposely didn't use the term receptacle in this section of the code... and the WC itself doesn't preclude the raceway and mounting that presents the hazard

I respectfully disagree. The wall connector itself is the "utilization equipment".

 

[gt2690b]

I respectfully disagree. The wall connector itself is the "utilization equipment".

It's kind of mute anyway even the raceway and mounting is subject to protection.. they don't want people dieing touching a potentially moist and/or hot mounting surface or raceway

 

[MacO512]

It's kind of mute anyway even the raceway and mounting is subject to protection.. they don't want people dieing touching a potentially moist and/or hot mounting surface or raceway

I'm not sure about this. We don't have GFCI protection of a raceway to AC unit or to a subpanel.

 

[gt2690b]

I'm not sure about this. We don't have GFCI protection of a raceway to AC unit or to a subpanel.

That's actually what the 2020 code was specifically addressing

 

[Rocky_H]

I think what you quoted was the amendment to the 2017 NEC...

Yes, it was. That was added in the 2017 version that addressed this that there is no question anymore. All receptacles being installed for EV charging must have GFCI. So that was in there from 2017 onward for EVs. The second part you mentioned is that the 2020 version even more broadly expanded the need for GFCI to many more types of outlets.

This implies even the WC if installed outdoors would require a GFCI

the WC is an outlet..

No, it definitely isn't. That has always been a distinction that hard wired appliances are not outlets/receptacles.

 

[MacO512]

My understanding is;

A receptacle is for each female plug, while an outlet is for the whole panel in the box. So the standard household electrical connection is one outlet with dual receptacles. A 14-50 connection would be one receptacle with one outlet. A hardwired device is not an outlet nor is it a receptacle.

Happy to hear an expert confirm this. I would be shocked if I was wrong such that the GFCI requirements on outlets meant all hardwired EV chargers need a GFCI breaker.

 

[amarchcan]

Hello everyone ! I have a newbie - amateur question. I just got a 14-50 outlet installed for my M3 RWD (that is expected hopefully soon) . The electrician put a 45 AMP breaker instead of a 20 AMP one saying - "it is better and safer" . Is this really ok or should I get a 20 AMP one ? Does having a 45 AMP breaker mean more electricity would / could come through and damage the vehicle ??

 

[Rocky_H]

Hello everyone ! I have a newbie - amateur question. I just got a 14-50 outlet installed for my M3 RWD (that is expected hopefully soon) . The electrician put a 45 AMP breaker instead of a 20 AMP one saying - "it is better and safer" . Is this really ok or should I get a 20 AMP one ? Does having a 45 AMP breaker mean more electricity would / could come through and damage the vehicle ??

Wow, that is all kinds of weird. First of all, you mention repeatedly that you think it should be a 20A breaker. Why in the world would you think that? The naming for NEMA outlet types is two parts:
"14" This corresponds to the type of outlet it is, like defining voltage level and whether it is single phase or three phase or whether it has neutral or not.
"50" This simply the amount of amps. It's a 50 amp outlet. Why would you think it should be 20?

So a 14-50 will normally have a 50A breaker. There is an allowed exception because there are no 40A outlet types, that you can use 50A type of outlets like 14-50 or 6-50 on 40A circuits with a 40A breaker. 45A breakers are really unusual and hard to find, but I think would be OK.

As far as is it better or safer? Well, it would define the level of the circuit, and hopefully the wire used is appropriate for a 45A circuit. If that had just a 20A breaker on it, it would probably be tripping that breaker a lot, as most things that get plugged into it would try to draw more than 20A very frequently. So basically, yes, the 45A is probably fine if the wire is right. Do you know what type and gauge (thickness) it is?

 

[MacO512]

Hello everyone ! I have a newbie - amateur question. I just got a 14-50 outlet installed for my M3 RWD (that is expected hopefully soon) . The electrician put a 45 AMP breaker instead of a 20 AMP one saying - "it is better and safer" . Is this really ok or should I get a 20 AMP one ? Does having a 45 AMP breaker mean more electricity would / could come through and damage the vehicle ??

Are you certain its a 45 amp breaker? That is an odd value, normally it is 40 or 50. Is the breaker GFCI?

The breaker is to protect the receptacle and wiring in the house from overheating and causing a fire. It doesn't protect the device. GFCI protects people from shock if its wet or something plugged in wrong, it is now code to be on a receptacle regardless of having 20 amps or 45 amps. A 20 amp 240 volt outlet could have 4,800 watts go through and be plenty enough to kill you.

To your question, no the charger and inverter in the car will not pull more power than needed that could damage the vehicle. The danger is if they pull more than the receptacle or electrical wiring is designed for.

 

[davewill]

Hello everyone ! I have a newbie - amateur question. I just got a 14-50 outlet installed for my M3 RWD (that is expected hopefully soon) . The electrician put a 45 AMP breaker instead of a 20 AMP one saying - "it is better and safer" . Is this really ok or should I get a 20 AMP one ? Does having a 45 AMP breaker mean more electricity would / could come through and damage the vehicle ??

I'm guessing that maybe he meant he put in a 45a breaker rather than a 50a one. I suppose one could say that the 45a one was "safer", but not significantly so. It should be adequate since the mobile connector supports a maximum of 32a charging, so anything over 40a will work for it. I would have preferred just having the 50a breaker there myself. If you were to decide to put in a wall connector later, it has no 45a setting and you'd have to either configure it for 40a, or replace the breaker at that time.

TLDR: A 45a breaker is really weird and likely to confuse future upgrades. Better to use a 50a breaker.

 

[amarchcan]

Wow, that is all kinds of weird. First of all, you mention repeatedly that you think it should be a 20A breaker. Why in the world would you think that? The naming for NEMA outlet types is two parts:
"14" This corresponds to the type of outlet it is, like defining voltage level and whether it is single phase or three phase or whether it has neutral or not.
"50" This simply the amount of amps. It's a 50 amp outlet. Why would you think it should be 20?

So a 14-50 will normally have a 50A breaker. There is an allowed exception because there are no 40A outlet types, that you can use 50A type of outlets like 14-50 or 6-50 on 40A circuits with a 40A breaker. 45A breakers are really unusual and hard to find, but I think would be OK.

As far as is it better or safer? Well, it would define the level of the circuit, and hopefully the wire used is appropriate for a 45A circuit. If that had just a 20A breaker on it, it would probably be tripping that breaker a lot, as most things that get plugged into it would try to draw more than 20A very frequently. So basically, yes, the 45A is probably fine if the wire is right. Do you know what type and gauge (thickness) it is?

Are you certain its a 45 amp breaker? That is an odd value, normally it is 40 or 50. Is the breaker GFCI?

The breaker is to protect the receptacle and wiring in the house from overheating and causing a fire. It doesn't protect the device. GFCI protects people from shock if its wet or something plugged in wrong, it is now code to be on a receptacle regardless of having 20 amps or 45 amps. A 20 amp 240 volt outlet could have 4,800 watts go through and be plenty enough to kill you.

To your question, no the charger and inverter in the car will not pull more power than needed that could damage the vehicle. The danger is if they pull more than the receptacle or electrical wiring is designed for.

I'm guessing that maybe he meant he put in a 45a breaker rather than a 50a one. I suppose one could say that the 45a one was "safer", but not significantly so. It should be adequate since the mobile connector supports a maximum of 32a charging, so anything over 40a will work for it. I would have preferred just having the 50a breaker there myself. If you were to decide to put in a wall connector later, it has no 45a setting and you'd have to either configure it for 40a, or replace the breaker at that time.

TLDR: A 45a breaker is really weird and likely to confuse future upgrades. Better to use a 50a breaker.

Thanks very much for your guidance. I must have been confused about the 20 AMP figure from somewhere else. I'll go with a 50 AMP breaker then.