Installing Wall Connector is better than NEMA 14-50

[240vPlug]

The code most definitely does not say that it isn't required if your equipment has built in GFCI protection.. that does not protect you from mounting and raceways or dripping water inside your hardwired connection .. it only protects you downstream of the equipment very similar to the UMC

It doesn't need to say that. The code is not meant to make electricity completely harmless to humans. It's meant to prevent common injuries. Dismounting equipment and pouring water inside the equipment is not something that would be common.

The enclosure is weatherproof and rated for outdoor use. The requirement is designed to protect people and not equipment or property.

You seem very passionate and have taken a lot of time to look into this. Like I said though it meets code. Code requires GFCI protection and it has it.

Nothing more to really say on this.

 

[gt2690b]

It doesn't need to say that. The code is not meant to make electricity completely harmless to humans. It's meant to prevent common injuries. Dismounting equipment and pouring water inside the equipment is not something that would be common.

The enclosure is weatherproof and rated for outdoor use. The requirement is designed to protect people and not equipment or property.

You seem very passionate and have taken a lot of time to look into this. Like I said though it meets code. Code requires GFCI protection and it has it.

Nothing more to really say on this.

The code requires the circuit to have GFCI not just the end equipment

 

[240vPlug]

The code requires the circuit to have GFCI not just the end equipment

The "outlet" requires "GFCI protection". Here is an informative article that will explain it better for anyone interested. Not seeing anything in the NEC requiring a GFCI breaker for hard wired installs where GFCI protection already exists on the outlet such is the case with the TWC.

GFCI Protection and the 2020 NEC

iaeimagazine.org

This whole discussion points out the importance of having a licensed electrician install your equipment with the proper permitting and inspection from your local jurisdiction.

 

[gt2690b]

The "outlet" requires "GFCI protection". Here is an informative article that will explain it better for anyone interested. Not seeing anything in the NEC requiring a GFCI breaker for hard wired installs where GFCI protection already exists on the outlet such is the case with the TWC.

GFCI Protection and the 2020 NEC

iaeimagazine.org

This whole discussion points out the importance of having a licensed electrician install your equipment with the proper permitting and inspection from your local jurisdiction.

EVSEs are considered an "Outlet" if it meets the definitions in the NEC that I repeated above

 

[JssonB]

that's not what the 2020 code says.. it's considered an outlet per the above definition..

Which code reference is that?

 

[gt2690b]

Which code reference is that?

NEC

 

[JssonB]

NEC

Yes I know NEC, which reference are you referring too?

 

[gt2690b]

Yes I know NEC, which reference are you referring too?

Hah my bad.. posted a couple times in here but:

A) Outdoor installations
B) 150V single phase to ground
C) Equipment rated 50 amps or less.

 

[jcanoe]

See para 7:

GFCI Protection and the 2020 NEC

This change has implications for a broad range of outdoor outlets in residential settings. This will mean that all dwelling unit outdoor receptacle outlets rated 125- through 250-volts and single-phase, 150-volts to ground or less will be required by 210.8(A)(3) to be GFCI protected and any hardwired equipment connected to single-phase, 150-Volts to ground or less and 50 amps or less will be required by 210.8(F) to have GFCI protection. There are two exceptions to this for not readily accessible receptacles intended for snow-melting and de-icing equipment and outdoor lighting outlets.

Does not specify the type of GFCI protection; would the Gen3 Wall Connector's integral GFCI protection qualify?

If someone drilled into the exterior conduit to mount a fixture and hit a live wire, they could still be electrocuted even though the Wall Connector has GFCI protection for normal use. I don't believe the NEC intends to protect against every possible scenario, only the more common accidents involving electricity.

 

[JssonB]

Hah my bad.. posted a couple times in here but:

A) Outdoor installations
B) 150V single phase to ground
C) Equipment rated 50 amps or less.

Yes thank you

 

[AC Traction]

How about 625.54? Article 625 specifically covers Electric Vehicle Power Transfer Systems.

625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. In addition to the requirements of 210.8, all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

"Receptacles" are defined as "a contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug..."

 

[dohmahmigh]

Should work fine, in fact the GFCI protection for EV charging (either circuit breaker or receptacle) is now required by code in many jurisdictions. (Note: The GFCI circuit breaker protects the user when plugging or unplugging the charging station power cord from the wall receptacle. (Turning off the power at the circuit breaker before plugging or unplugging the charging station power cord from the wall receptacle similarly protects the user when plugging or unplugging the equipment.)

The Tesla Mobile Connector and Tesla Wall Connector units have separate built-in GFCI protection for the user when plugging or unplugging the charging connector from the vehicle.

If you ever install the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector, it is designed to be hard wired (no plug or receptacle) then you would want to replace the GFCI circuit breaker with a standard circuit breaker. The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector installation manual states not to use a GFCI circuit breaker.

Hi all, I'd appreciate some clarifications please. Currently considering adding a 14-50 receptacle to use with the mobile connector. The 4 electricians that I got quotes from all said GFCI breakers are NOT needed and if i insisted on adding it, it'd cost an extra $300-$400, which i find to be too much.
Since the mobile connector already has built-in GFCI, is the GFCI in either the breaker or the receptacle itself needed IF I were to plug something else (not tesla mobile connector) that does not have a built-in GFCI only? In theory, if I were to ONLY use that 14-50 outlet for the mobile connect, then the GFCI breaker would not be required? Thanks in advance.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Hi all, I'd appreciate some clarifications please. Currently considering adding a 14-50 receptacle to use with the mobile connector. The 4 electricians that I got quotes from all said GFCI breakers are NOT needed and if i insisted on adding it, it'd cost an extra $300-$400, which i find to be too much.
Since the mobile connector already has built-in GFCI, is the GFCI in either the breaker or the receptacle itself needed IF I were to plug something else (not tesla mobile connector) that does not have a built-in GFCI only? In theory, if I were to ONLY use that 14-50 outlet for the mobile connect, then the GFCI breaker would not be required? Thanks in advance.

Under NEC 2017 or newer (which California has adopted), a receptacle installed for EVSE purposes would need GFCI protection (see 625.54 mentioned by others). The GFCI is required on the breaker because it is used to protect the receptacle (there are no 14-50 receptacles with built in GFCI so that is irrelevant). The one on the Mobile connector is not sufficient to meet code, given it doesn't protect you from shock from the receptacle.
NEC® Adoption List
You can see page 3 in the document below California added that section to their code:

Add new Section 625.54 to read as follows:
625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

http://https//www.dgs.ca.gov/-/medi...hash=09EB2042B66A5E34CF3879820678C53DF1D72C05

The electrician might get away with installing a 14-50 without a GFCI breaker with the inspector if they don't tell the inspector that it is being used for an EVSE, but you wouldn't be code complaint while using an EVSE. The inspector should be able to guess however fairly easily it is being used for a EVSE and in some jurisdictions it is explicitly laid out a GFCI is required for EVSE receptacles during the application process (examples below). I presume you are getting a permit and it inspected?
https://stgenpln.blob.core.windows.net/document/EV_ChargingStationPermit.pdf
https://www.huntingtonbeachca.gov/files/users/building_and_safety/EV-Charger-Guidelines---MFD.pdf

You can save money by looking for and buying your own GFCI 50A breaker, it should be around $100-150. Look on your breaker panel for which model is UL listed to work with your panel (if your panel doesn't write the model, you may have to look it up on your breaker panel manufacturer's website). A tip to find one at a reasonable price is to buy a spa panel that has the 50A breaker included. I got my Eaton BR one by buying a spa panel at a wholesale electrician supply store (Platt, it's a chain that includes Rexel and Gexpro). Depending on what model, you may be able to find them elsewhere (including on Amazon).
Locations :: PLATT ELECTRIC SUPPLY
That was how I was able to find one at that price, otherwise some places charge a couple hundred due to short supply.

 

[240vPlug]

Hi all, I'd appreciate some clarifications please. Currently considering adding a 14-50 receptacle to use with the mobile connector. The 4 electricians that I got quotes from all said GFCI breakers are NOT needed and if i insisted on adding it, it'd cost an extra $300-$400, which i find to be too much.
Since the mobile connector already has built-in GFCI, is the GFCI in either the breaker or the receptacle itself needed IF I were to plug something else (not tesla mobile connector) that does not have a built-in GFCI only? In theory, if I were to ONLY use that 14-50 outlet for the mobile connect, then the GFCI breaker would not be required? Thanks in advance.

The only reaon you need a breaker is when your installing a 14-50 because I'm not aware of any 14-50 outlet that provides "GFCI Protection" at the outlet. protection at the 14-50 would also be acceptable as is the case with the TWC with it's built-in GFCI protection.

Therefore a GFCI breaker must be installed to provide adequate protection to the "personell"

If still in doubt, have the work permitted and inspected by your local jurisdiction. You should always do that anyway

Installing a GFCI with the TWC is not only not required but is highly likely to be problematic.

To clarify in your case you would need GFCI Breaker. If you can install a TWC that would be better. You would get faster Charging and not need a GFCI breaker I apologize I originally misread the question... hadn't had my morning coffee yet

 

[gt2690b]

The only reaon you need a breaker is when your installing a 14-50 because I'm not aware of any 14-50 outlet that provides "GFCI Protection" at the outlet. protection at the 14-50 would also be acceptable as is the case with the TWC with it's built-in GFCI protection.

Therefore a GFCI breaker must be installed to provide adequate protection to the "personell"

If still in doubt, have the work permitted and inspected by your local jurisdiction. You should always do that anyway

Installing a GFCI with the TWC is not only not required but is highly likely to be problematic.

To clarify in your case you would need GFCI Breaker. If you can install a TWC that would be better. You would get faster Charging and not need a GFCI breaker I apologize I originally misread the question... hadn't had my morning coffee yet

Assuming this is installed in a garage

 

[gt2690b]

See para 7:

GFCI Protection and the 2020 NEC

This change has implications for a broad range of outdoor outlets in residential settings. This will mean that all dwelling unit outdoor receptacle outlets rated 125- through 250-volts and single-phase, 150-volts to ground or less will be required by 210.8(A)(3) to be GFCI protected and any hardwired equipment connected to single-phase, 150-Volts to ground or less and 50 amps or less will be required by 210.8(F) to have GFCI protection. There are two exceptions to this for not readily accessible receptacles intended for snow-melting and de-icing equipment and outdoor lighting outlets.

Does not specify the type of GFCI protection; would the Gen3 Wall Connector's integral GFCI protection qualify?

If someone drilled into the exterior conduit to mount a fixture and hit a live wire, they could still be electrocuted even though the Wall Connector has GFCI protection for normal use. I don't believe the NEC intends to protect against every possible scenario, only the more common accidents involving electricity.

again the code is talking about the circuit.. not the end equipment.. if youre truly installing a TWC outside i would recommend a GFCI .. pretty much anything installed outside should have a GFCI as a general rule of thumb

 

[jcanoe]

again the code is talking about the circuit.. not the end equipment.. if youre truly installing a TWC outside i would recommend a GFCI .. pretty much anything installed outside should have a GFCI as a general rule of thumb

Here is the gotcha:

Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector Installation Manual, Page 6:

Product Overview

Circuit Breaker Rating / Maximum Output

Power Output

For maximum power output, install a standard double pole 60 amp circuit breaker. Wall Connector includes
integrated GFCI protection - do not install a GFCI circuit breaker.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

 

[davewill]

Hi all, I'd appreciate some clarifications please. Currently considering adding a 14-50 receptacle to use with the mobile connector. The 4 electricians that I got quotes from all said GFCI breakers are NOT needed and if i insisted on adding it, it'd cost an extra $300-$400, which i find to be too much.
Since the mobile connector already has built-in GFCI, is the GFCI in either the breaker or the receptacle itself needed IF I were to plug something else (not tesla mobile connector) that does not have a built-in GFCI only? In theory, if I were to ONLY use that 14-50 outlet for the mobile connect, then the GFCI breaker would not be required? Thanks in advance.

What we've seen time and again is that even licensed electricians will cut corners in order to keep their quote down and get the business. For example, there have been a huge number of people who have posted here saying their electrician told them they didn't need a permit...when that is blatently untrue*. Your electrician could simply not be up to date on the code requiring GFCI, or he could be purposely trying to keep his quote low so you don't go with someone else who's willing to cut that corner when he didn't. You should be able to trust a licensed professional to do the right thing, but it seems that you can't...it's that simple.

* There are a few jurisdictions where you don't need a permit, but the vast majority do require it.

 

[jcanoe]

Hi all, I'd appreciate some clarifications please. Currently considering adding a 14-50 receptacle to use with the mobile connector. The 4 electricians that I got quotes from all said GFCI breakers are NOT needed and if i insisted on adding it, it'd cost an extra $300-$400, which i find to be too much.
Since the mobile connector already has built-in GFCI, is the GFCI in either the breaker or the receptacle itself needed IF I were to plug something else (not tesla mobile connector) that does not have a built-in GFCI only? In theory, if I were to ONLY use that 14-50 outlet for the mobile connect, then the GFCI breaker would not be required? Thanks in advance.

The only outdoor or garage application for an 14-50 receptacle that would not require a GFCI circuit breaker is for powering an RV motor home. An RV is considered to be a distribution panel, not electrical equipment. In general GFCI is not compatible with an RV's electrical system. (It is too bad that GFCI is not compatible with RVs because RV operators are at risk every time they plug in or unplug the RV.) 14-50 receptacles installed in kitchens behind a range or oven do not currently require GFCI.

 

[gt2690b]

Here is the gotcha:

Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector Installation Manual, Page 6:

Product Overview

Circuit Breaker Rating / Maximum Output

Power Output

For maximum power output, install a standard double pole 60 amp circuit breaker. Wall Connector includes
integrated GFCI protection - do not install a GFCI circuit breaker.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

not really a gotcha... per the definition i've listed 3 or 4 times now this would not require GFCI since the circuit is > 50A ... many EVSE installs use 50A or less .. also many TWC are installed inside so the amp rating does not matter