Installing Wall Connector is better than NEMA 14-50

[jcanoe]

not really a gotcha... per the definition i've listed 3 or 4 times now this would not require GFCI since the circuit is > 50A ... many EVSE installs use 50A or less .. also many TWC are installed inside so the amp rating does not matter

Agreed, we are only discussing outdoor installations of EVSE, specifically the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector.

The NEC Article 100 definition 210.8(F) GFCI Protection. Outdoor Outlets.
stated:

"In the 2020 NEC, all outdoor “outlets” for dwellings, other than lighting, electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline heating, that are supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less, shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. This is a big change!

Example: A 240V, single phase, outdoor, dwelling unit air conditioner has two ungrounded conductors that are each 120V to ground and 240V phase to phase. If this air conditioner is rated 50 amps or less, then GFCI protection is now required for the “outlet”. How about an outdoor well pump?

GFCI being required for the example, "If this air conditioner (not the circuit) is rated 50 amps or less, then GFCI protection is now required..."

The Telsa Gen3 Wall Connector Installation Manual Specification pages states that the Gen3 Wall Connector's maximum rated output is 48 amps (nothing stated about being rated for more than 50 amps.)

Why would the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector installed outdoors on a 60A circuit not require GFCI when on a 40A or 50A circuit it would require GFCI? It would seem that the risk was similar if not actually greater for the 60A circuit.

 

[gt2690b]

Agreed, we are only discussing outdoor installations of EVSE, specifically the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector.

The NEC Article 100 definition 210.8(F) GFCI Protection. Outdoor Outlets.
stated:

"In the 2020 NEC, all outdoor “outlets” for dwellings, other than lighting, electric snow-melting, deicing, or pipeline heating, that are supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less, shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel. This is a big change!

Example: A 240V, single phase, outdoor, dwelling unit air conditioner has two ungrounded conductors that are each 120V to ground and 240V phase to phase. If this air conditioner is rated 50 amps or less, then GFCI protection is now required for the “outlet”. How about an outdoor well pump?

GFCI being required for the example, "If this air conditioner (not the circuit) is rated 50 amps or less, then GFCI protection is now required..."

The Telsa Gen3 Wall Connector Installation Manual Specification pages states that the Gen3 Wall Connector's maximum rated output is 48 amps (nothing stated about being rated for more than 50 amps.)

Why would the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector installed outdoors on a 60A circuit not require GFCI when on a 40A or 50A circuit it would require GFCI? It would seem that the risk was similar if not actually greater for the 60A circuit.

I learned a long time ago not to ask "why" when designing per the NEC.. you have to force yourself to turn your brain off and just do what the code says otherwise you will drive yourself crazy

 

[jcanoe]

I learned a long time ago not to ask "why" when designing per the NEC.. you have to force yourself to turn your brain off and just do what the code says otherwise you will drive yourself crazy

So are we in agreement of the following:

A) For outdoor installations of most electrical equipment (including EVSE), under 50 amps, the 2020 NEC Article 100 specifies GFCI protection is required, and

B) Since Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector can be installed on a 240V circuit including 15A/20A/30A/40A/50A/60A. Only when installed on a 60A circuit would the outdoor installation of the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector not require GFCI protection, and

C) The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector Installation Manual specifically states that you should not install a GFCI circuit breaker (does not qualify this statement for the circuit rating.)

Most use cases of B appear to be in conflict with C.

 

[gt2690b]

So are we in agreement of the following:

A) For outdoor installations of most electrical equipment (including EVSE), under 50 amps, the 2020 NEC Article 100 specifies GFCI protection is required, and

B) Since Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector can be installed on a 240V circuit including 15A/20A/30A/40A/50A/60A. Only when installed on a 60A circuit would the outdoor installation of the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector not require GFCI protection, and

C) The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector Installation Manual specifically states that you should not install a GFCI circuit breaker (does not qualify this statement for the circuit rating.)

Most use cases of B appear to be in conflict with C.

I agree... and as always the code requirement overrides the manual .. the manufacturer cannot remove code requirements...

 

[JssonB]

The only outdoor or garage application for an 14-50 receptacle that would not require a GFCI circuit breaker is for powering an RV motor home. An RV is considered to be a distribution panel, not electrical equipment. In general GFCI is not compatible with an RV's electrical system. (It is too bad that GFCI is not compatible with RVs because RV operators are at risk every time they plug in or unplug the RV.) 14-50 receptacles installed in kitchens behind a range or oven do not currently require GFCI.

So, are you saying my welders and 240v grinders need a GFCI?

What we've seen time and again is that even licensed electricians will cut corners in order to keep their quote down and get the business. For example, there have been a huge number of people who have posted here saying their electrician told them they didn't need a permit...when that is blatently untrue*. Your electrician could simply be not up to date on the code requiring GFCI, or he could be purposely trying to keep his quote low so you don't go with someone else who's willing to cut that corner when he didn't. You should be able to trust a licensed professional to do the right thing, but it seems that you can't...it's that simple.

* There are a few jurisdictions where you don't need a permit, but the vast majority do require it.

That is a bouble edge sword. By not installing a GFCI doesn't mean you're cutting corners. Because majority of the installs might not need it.
If the install is outdoors, yes! Install a GFCI.
The whole reason for the GFCI is to stop the current running across your heart. It takes 50mA for more than 2 seconds to go into defibrillation. The likelihood of this happening is very slim in doors. If you plug in and unplug your 14-50 multiple times a month and you dont wear shoes while doing this, then please install a GFCI.
If you're wearing insulated shoes, this will not happen and the GFCI is not helping. GFCI is a GROUND FAULT CIRCUIT INTERRUPTER. This condition happens if you're touching conductive material such as metal, water, water pipes and such while being in contact with current. According to SOARES 12th edition, the number one culprit for GFCI trips are babies and women. That's because women are using hair dryers and such near a bathtub and or a sink with water. That's why GFCI's are required in these locations.


Ok, referring to NEC 2020 article 210.8.
GFCI needed in bathrooms, garages below grade and outdoors. Makes sense.

Now for NEC article 625. (Including 625.50 which is about height off the floor)
No where in the National Electric Code 2020 version does not state that a GFCI is required for a EVSE, except if the following conditions are meet by 210.8, then yes a GFCI is required.
That's it!
I've been an electrician for 30+ years and there is so much misinformation in these posts. I have replace hundreds of gfci receptacles that have been burnt and melted down and the they didnt trip because it wasn't a direct to ground fault. So don't get a false sense of security from a GFCI.
If your install is in a closed above ground garage, you do not need a GFCI by code of NEC 2020 version.
If you want one, then do it by all means.

 

[jcanoe]

So, are you saying my welders and 240v grinders need a GFCI?

For existing (outdoor) installations, no; for new outdoor installations (yes); a closed garage that is not below grade is considered an indoor location. so the GFCI would not be required for the welding or grinding equipment.

 

[dohmahmigh]

Assuming this is installed in a garage

correct. it'll be installed in a garage

 

[STS-134]

For existing (outdoor) installations, no; for new outdoor installations (yes); a closed garage that is not below grade is considered an indoor location. so the GFCI would not be required for the welding or grinding equipment.

Yep. Easy workaround: just say you want a 14-50 outlet for a welder or no don't say what you'll be using it for. It's completely code compliant to then change your mind and then decide to use your 14-50 welding receptacle with a EVSE as far as I know. 625.54 says that "all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel" but never says outlets installed for another purpose cannot be used for electric vehicle charging without adding GFCI protection.

 

[240vPlug]

Here is the gotcha:

Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector Installation Manual, Page 6:

Product Overview

Circuit Breaker Rating / Maximum Output

Power Output

For maximum power output, install a standard double pole 60 amp circuit breaker. Wall Connector includes
integrated GFCI protection - do not install a GFCI circuit breaker.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

What it comes down to is the intent of the code its to protect people from accidental injury. In order to access the terminations inside the TWC you would need to disassemble the equipment. Since it would require disassembly it is not "readily accessible".

Here is an FAQ from the MN department of labor and industry. In the FAQ it states what the requirement does not apply to:

https://www.dli.mn.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/NECFAQ20.pdf

Outdoor outlets that are not readily accessible such as a submersible well pumps, sewer lift pumps, load management controllers, surge protection devices, or similar equipment.

The only readily accessible portion is the charge head which is already protected with the integrated GFCI in the TWC. With a 14-50 the connection is readily accessible AND there are no 14-50 (at least that I am aware of) that have GFCI on the receptacle. In the case of a standard household receptacle it is acceptable to have either a GFCI receptacle OR a GFCI breaker.

 

[stopcrazypp]

So, are you saying my welders and 240v grinders need a GFCI?




That is a bouble edge sword. By not installing a GFCI doesn't mean you're cutting corners. Because majority of the installs might not need it.
If the install is outdoors, yes! Install a GFCI.
The whole reason for the GFCI is to stop the current running across your heart. It takes 50mA for more than 2 seconds to go into defibrillation. The likelihood of this happening is very slim in doors. If you plug in and unplug your 14-50 multiple times a month and you dont wear shoes while doing this, then please install a GFCI.
If you're wearing insulated shoes, this will not happen and the GFCI is not helping. GFCI is a GROUND FAULT CIRCUIT INTERRUPTER. This condition happens if you're touching conductive material such as metal, water, water pipes and such while being in contact with current. According to SOARES 12th edition, the number one culprit for GFCI trips are babies and women. That's because women are using hair dryers and such near a bathtub and or a sink with water. That's why GFCI's are required in these locations.


Ok, referring to NEC 2020 article 210.8.
GFCI needed in bathrooms, garages below grade and outdoors. Makes sense.

Now for NEC article 625. (Including 625.50 which is about height off the floor)
No where in the National Electric Code 2020 version does not state that a GFCI is required for a EVSE, except if the following conditions are meet by 210.8, then yes a GFCI is required.
That's it!
I've been an electrician for 30+ years and there is so much misinformation in these posts. I have replace hundreds of gfci receptacles that have been burnt and melted down and the they didnt trip because it wasn't a direct to ground fault. So don't get a false sense of security from a GFCI.
If your install is in a closed above ground garage, you do not need a GFCI by code of NEC 2020 version.
If you want one, then do it by all means.

The requirement was added in NEC 2017 in section 625.54 (as part of TIA 17-2):
625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/TIA_70_17_2.pdf
It seems Arizona has adopted this too (looking up Phoenix code):
https://up.codes/viewer/phoenix/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/6/special-equipment#625.54

The latest electrical code in CA adopts NEC 2020, which says:
625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel
In addition to the requirements in 210.8, all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-electric-code-2022/chapter/6/special-equipment#625.54

If you are installing a 14-50 receptacle for the purposes of plugging in a EVSE (which most people are doing here), a GFCI breaker is required under NEC 2017 or newer. It's very clear. The electrician/owner may get away with not having one by either not saying the purpose of the 14-50 or lying about it (like for example saying it's for a welder), but there are some jurisdictions that preempt this by having it in their application. Also if your EVSE burns your house while charging, the insurance company may use this as a reason to deny your claim given it's not code compliant (others says you can have your lawyer argue the GFCI wouldn't have prevented the fire, but it's up to the owner if they want to take that risk).

An honest electrician should say it's required under code and let owner decide the cost/benefits of not having one.

 

[240vPlug]

The requirement was added in NEC 2017 in section 625.54 (as part of TIA 17-2):
625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/TIA_70_17_2.pdf
It seems Arizona has adopted this too (looking up Phoenix code):
https://up.codes/viewer/phoenix/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/6/special-equipment#625.54

The latest electrical code in CA adopts NEC 2020, which says:
625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel
In addition to the requirements in 210.8, all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-electric-code-2022/chapter/6/special-equipment#625.54

If you are installing a 14-50 receptacle for the purposes of plugging in a EVSE (which most people are doing here), a GFCI breaker is required under NEC 2017 or newer. It's very clear. The electrician/owner may get away with not having one by either not saying the purpose of the 14-50 or lying about it (like for example saying it's for a welder), but there are some jurisdictions that preempt this by having it in their application. Also if your EVSE burns your house while charging, the insurance company may use this as a reason to deny your claim given it's not code compliant (others says you can have your lawyer argue the GFCI wouldn't have prevented the fire, but it's up to the owner if they want to take that risk).

An honest electrician should say it's required under code and let owner decide the cost/benefits of not having one.

Ground faults don't usually cause fire. A ground fault causes uncontrolled flow into ground and will trip the circuit breaker due to overload. The purpose of a GFCI is to prevent injury. It detects the fault before the flow is able to reach the level required to trip the breaker this preventing a potentially fatal shock. Which is probably an even bigger concern for insurance than a fire.

The breaker should stop flow fairly quickly once it exceeds the amperage rating but not quick enough to prevent a shock. It's not designed to protect against shock from intentional tampering with or disassembly of equipment. It prevents the casual user from getting shocked when she/he plugs or unplugs.

More likely culprit in fires would be arcing. AFCI is now required in a long t of places as well. It drives people crazy because some of them trip when motors turn on.

It's all a balancing act. You provide some level of safety while still allowing the system to function as designed.

 

[exxxviii]

The purpose of a GFCI is to prevent injury. It detects the fault before the flow is able to reach the level required to trip the breaker this preventing a potentially fatal shock.

My fun tidbit… I remember when my EE professor walked us through this. It only takes about 50 mA to cause cardiac arrest, so GFCI is designed to trip under 10 mA.

 

[JssonB]

The requirement was added in NEC 2017 in section 625.54 (as part of TIA 17-2):
625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
https://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/AboutTheCodes/70/TIA_70_17_2.pdf
It seems Arizona has adopted this too (looking up Phoenix code):
https://up.codes/viewer/phoenix/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/6/special-equipment#625.54

The latest electrical code in CA adopts NEC 2020, which says:
625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel
In addition to the requirements in 210.8, all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-electric-code-2022/chapter/6/special-equipment#625.54

If you are installing a 14-50 receptacle for the purposes of plugging in a EVSE (which most people are doing here), a GFCI breaker is required under NEC 2017 or newer. It's very clear. The electrician/owner may get away with not having one by either not saying the purpose of the 14-50 or lying about it (like for example saying it's for a welder), but there are some jurisdictions that preempt this by having it in their application. Also if your EVSE burns your house while charging, the insurance company may use this as a reason to deny your claim given it's not code compliant (others says you can have your lawyer argue the GFCI wouldn't have prevented the fire, but it's up to the owner if they want to take that risk).

An honest electrician should say it's required under code and let owner decide the cost/benefits of not having one.

That is correct. I overlooked .54 and see that.
I don't have a GFCI for all of my equipment and have never had an issue. But I do understand the worst case scenario and that is always the case for safety.
My neighbor burnt his garage down and it was on a GFCI circuit, it doesn't protect from arc flash or overheating from a loose wire or terminal.

 

[STS-134]

That is correct. I overlooked .54 and see that.
I don't have a GFCI for all of my equipment and have never had an issue. But I do understand the worst case scenario and that is always the case for safety.

If they really cared about safety they'd ban NEMA 6, 10, and 14 receptacles and plugs. Honestly the design of these receptacles and plugs is one of the worst I've seen, with very long prongs you can easily touch when they are live. If they wanted to make these devices safe, and absolutely wanted long prongs to transfer 50A worth of current, they'd do something like make a shield around the prongs on the plug end, and design the receptacles to be similar to tamper-resistant receptacles such that the openings in the receptacle only open when the shield around the prongs presses against some recessed pressure points in the receptacle. This would ensure that you can't touch the prongs when they are live.

 

[tevman]

Should work fine, in fact the GFCI protection for EV charging (either circuit breaker or receptacle) is now required by code in many jurisdictions. (Note: The GFCI circuit breaker protects the user when plugging or unplugging the charging station power cord from the wall receptacle. (Turning off the power at the circuit breaker before plugging or unplugging the charging station power cord from the wall receptacle similarly protects the user when plugging or unplugging the equipment.)

The Tesla Mobile Connector and Tesla Wall Connector units have separate built-in GFCI protection for the user when plugging or unplugging the charging connector from the vehicle.

If you ever install the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector, it is designed to be hard wired (no plug or receptacle) then you would want to replace the GFCI circuit breaker with a standard circuit breaker. The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector installation manual states not to use a GFCI circuit breaker.

Thanks jcanoe, that helps a lot in my installation case too. One question: does the 50 AMP breaker with GFCI also have over-heat protection and is that needed? And I assume that GFCI in the breaker protects against both voltage surge and low voltage or brownout, is that right? Cheers and thanks much.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Thanks jcanoe, that helps a lot in my installation case too. One question: does the 50 AMP breaker with GFCI also have over-heat protection and is that needed?

Most breakers work via a bimetallic strip which heats up when the current exceeds the rating on the breaker, which would cause it to trip (this applies to all breakers, not just GFCI). This has a side effect if the wire overheats near the breaker it can also trip it (even if the current is not exceeded). However, that is a side effect of the common breaker design. I can see a breaker theoretically being designed purely based on current and not trip based on heat.

As for true overheat protection, the mobile connector has a temperature sensor in each adapter plug, and that actually directly cuts off the power when it detects overheating.
Mobile Connector

The Wall Connector also claims it has multiple temperature sensors:
"Wall Connector actively monitors temperatures in multiple locations while charging to ensure stability of the charge session. Temperature sensors are located at the relays, microcontroller, charge handle, and rear of the main unit to monitor the temperature of the terminals in the wirebox."
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

And I assume that GFCI in the breaker protects against both voltage surge and low voltage or brownout, is that right? Cheers and thanks much.

No it does not. GFCI provides no protection against voltage surges or low voltage/brownouts. If that is a concern, you need a surge protector. Brownouts usually there isn't much negative consequences for EVSEs (most EVSEs are designed to handle a huge range of voltages, so a lower voltage typically is not a big deal). For the onboard charger, if the voltage is too low it will refuse to charge, so there should be no issue there too for a brownout.

All GFCI provides is protection from current going to ground, which typically happens when someone for example touches live electricity via an outlet and there is a path to ground. That's why it's required in damp locations like bathrooms and kitchens where that is more likely, and newer code requires it for EVSEs also that are plugged into outlets. It's there to protect you from being shocked by the outlet, it's not there to protect the equipment.
https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/099_0.pdf

Note if you are installing a hardwired Wall Connector, you do not need a GFCI breaker (and installing one may cause nuisance trips).

 

[gt2690b]

...

Note if you are installing a hardwired Wall Connector, you do not need a GFCI breaker (and installing one may cause nuisance trips).

**" If indoors i.e. a garage

 

[tevman]

**" If indoors i.e. a garage

Got it and thanks much for the details, I really appreciate it.

 

[240vPlug]

Got it and thanks much for the details, I really appreciate it.

Wall Connector includes integrated GFCI protection - do not install a GFCI circuit breaker.

From the manual for the TWC. TWC has integrated GFCI protection.

Gen 3 Wall Connector Manual - Tesla https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

Ground Fault Circuit Interruption
Integrated ground fault circuit interruption (GFCI) protection automatically detects a current mismatch
between power delivery conductors that would indicate that current is flowing through the ground (PE)
conductor.
If a ground fault occurs after 10 seconds of charging, Wall Connector will wait 15 minutes before
automatically re-attempting to charge. Up to four attempts to charge will be made before user interaction is
required.
If a residual current fault occurs within 10 seconds of charging, Wall Connector will lock out and user
interaction is required to restore charging functionality.
Recommended interaction includes pressing the button on the charging handle, or removing the charging
handle from the vehicle and reinserting it. If this does not resolve the issue, look for a ground fault issue such
as water ingress.

 

[davewill]

**" If indoors i.e. a garage

Indoor or outdoors, you don't use a GFCI breaker for a wall connector. The wall connector supplies the GFCI function.