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Insurance - my provider won't insure Model 3

hcsharp

Active Member
Jun 7, 2011
3,411
1,440
Vermont
I finally gave up on The Hartford. How dumb can you get to suddenly stop insuring the fastest growing auto company in the world? More cars sold than BMW last month. Finally signed up with Liberty Mutual via USAA.

The only thing I don't like is they require you to install an app on your phone that records acceleration rates (including braking which is another form of acceleration). Apparently they don't care about speed (too bad, I don't speed). The rep suggested I could "just leave my phone at home..." Right. I like to drive my car the way it was designed to be driven. Most of the time I don't accelerate fast, but once in a while I like to. That's one of the reasons I bought a Tesla, and part of the reason for buying our third one. I'm not sure if there's any way around the driving habits app. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,508
15,530
New Mexico
I think it is way past time that an insurance company takes driver aggression into account when setting the rates. I understand that everybody wants low insurance prices but the next best thing is to pay by risk.
 
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SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,508
15,530
New Mexico
How do you gauge driver aggression?
My label for people that stomp on the go pedal in their routine driving; the insurance company just associates certain driving characteristics with increased accident risk.

I am happy not to be pooled with that high risk group even though we both own Tesla cars.
 
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Raechris

Member
Nov 21, 2017
656
305
Boston
Not sure about VT but in MA there is a SDIP (safe driver ins program) and if you are at fault for moving violations (bad driver) you get points and pay more. If not you get credits. 15 is standard 9 is best, not sure how high it goes 35 maybe. So this monitoring your driving habits is the new risk management AI tool big insurers use to gather data to discriminate (like your credit score that started ten years ago and is now part of all standard insurance underwriting). I would not let some pencil pusher tell me how or what is a safe way to drive by authorizing a 24/7/365 nanny/spy. Would you allow spyware on your computer for the state DOR to ensure you pay a use tax for online purchases? I would find a better company
 
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hcsharp

Active Member
Jun 7, 2011
3,411
1,440
Vermont
What?? so, they're going to cancel your insurance if you delete the App? time for a new insurance company!
This IS my new insurance company. And I'm tired of shopping around. They don't cancel your insurance if you delete the app. They just raise your rates. My driving is not more dangerous just because I occasionally accelerate fast. I don't stomp on the go pedal when it might be risky. The discount for using the app for at least 90 days is between 5% and 30%. After 90 days they think they know who you are and set your discount accordingly. Oddly the biggest factor in determining safety is your speed, but the app doesn't care about that. It only cares about acceleration and braking rates.
 
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lolder

Member
Jun 11, 2016
913
704
SW Florida
After several years with the Hartford through AARP, they raised the premiums 35% in one year despite no situation changes. We secured other insurance effective with the annual policy renewal date. We notified Hartford in the month after renewal in response to continuing bills that we were letting the policy lapse. They continued sending increasing bills despite several additional written notices to them that I had not nor did I intend to renew the policy. They finally threatened me with a collection agency action. After complaining to AARP about their franchised carrier and writing to the state insurance commission they dropped the claim. I have never experienced such behavior when changing companies which we don't do often as we never have accidents. Beware!
 

zoiks66

Member
Nov 6, 2017
63
52
USA
I have used State Farm for all of my insurance for over 20 years. Insuring my non-P AWD Model 3 is $5 less per month than insuring my Audi A3 Quattro was. There is no chance I would ever agree to anything that allows an insurance company to track my driving.
 

5_+JqckQttqck

Active Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,851
1,338
Toronto
I finally gave up on The Hartford. How dumb can you get to suddenly stop insuring the fastest growing auto company in the world? More cars sold than BMW last month. Finally signed up with Liberty Mutual via USAA.

The only thing I don't like is they require you to install an app on your phone that records acceleration rates (including braking which is another form of acceleration). Apparently they don't care about speed (too bad, I don't speed). The rep suggested I could "just leave my phone at home..." Right. I like to drive my car the way it was designed to be driven. Most of the time I don't accelerate fast, but once in a while I like to. That's one of the reasons I bought a Tesla, and part of the reason for buying our third one. I'm not sure if there's any way around the driving habits app. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.

I have TD app installed on my phone and it's an OP-IN app. It only records when I turn the app on. So for a leisurely drive to the coffee shop or shopping mall, I turn it on. If I wanted to go for a weekend rip through the country side roads, I leave it off :). Check the app's fine print on installation.
 

brobinson

Member
May 23, 2018
621
640
Ohio
This IS my new insurance company. And I'm tired of shopping around. They don't cancel your insurance if you delete the app. They just raise your rates. My driving is not more dangerous just because I occasionally accelerate fast. I don't stomp on the go pedal when it might be risky. The discount for using the app for at least 90 days is between 5% and 30%. After 90 days they think they know who you are and set your discount accordingly. Oddly the biggest factor in determining safety is your speed, but the app doesn't care about that. It only cares about acceleration and braking rates.

FWIW, I just finished my 90 days with right track. They give you a 5% discount for signing up, and 5% on top of that as their 'estimate' for what you'll end up saving. I didn't change my driving habits very much and ended up saving less then the initial rate. I wouldn't call it a waste of 3 months, but I probably would have enjoyed the car more for those 90 days without the constant nag of the sensor being in the car.
 
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ZoomDoggie

Member
Jul 27, 2018
80
72
Salem, VA
Hard to give up on the fabulous rate they have for my Roadster...
They also have a rule that the policy has to include every car in the household, which is a common requirement for insurance companies. That prevents us from getting a separate policy for the Model 3.

How would they know/enforce? Really sounds like something the guy made up to get you to dump them so they could get rid of your inadvertent Roadster policy.

Or, if this is a real requirement (never heard of that from USAA), then definitely time to dump them as you did. Could you imagine them 'cancelling' your policy if you ever had a claim and they realized some other car was insured elsewhere. Sounds like something a company would bury in fine print so they could get out of covering claims. And, how do they define household?

As for the 'charging more for using the app', we had something similar only it wasn't an app (no way an app goes on my phone) but one of those devices you plug in your computer port. I wasn't charged MORE for not using it, but if I did use it I got a DISCOUNT. All in the wording ;). Sort of like one of those grocery cards. You get a discount when you use their loyalty program.
 

hcsharp

Active Member
Jun 7, 2011
3,411
1,440
Vermont
... There is no chance I would ever agree to anything that allows an insurance company to track my driving.
You can opt out of it, but then your rates go up by 10% or so.

Try Amica - have had them for many years, my M3 RWD only cost $380/yr
WHAT??!! That's incredible! I got a quote from Amica but it was more than double that and significantly higher than Liberty Mutual (through USAA).

I have TD app installed on my phone and it's an OP-IN app. It only records when I turn the app on. So for a leisurely drive to the coffee shop or shopping mall, I turn it on. If I wanted to go for a weekend rip through the country side roads, I leave it off :). Check the app's fine print on installation.
I was wondering if I could get away with doing something like that. I assumed the app had to be on all the time to meet their requirements. The app only seems to pay attention to acceleration, which includes braking and cornering (forms of acceleration).
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,508
15,530
New Mexico
WHAT??!! That's incredible! I got a quote from Amica but it was more than double that
I have Amica in Colorado and pay about $60 a month for 300k property/1000k medical liability, 5k deductions on collision and comp.
Married, not young, no accidents or tickets, multiple car and home policies.
 

5_+JqckQttqck

Active Member
Apr 27, 2018
1,851
1,338
Toronto
I have Amica in Colorado and pay about $60 a month for 300k property/1000k medical liability, 5k deductions on collision and comp.
Married, not young, no accidents or tickets, multiple car and home policies.

I'm moving to where you live! Toronto ON rates are beyond the roof thanks to some bad policies and a lot of auto insurance fraud. I'm paying 225 CAD/Mo and that's considered mid range. Some people pay much more.
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,508
15,530
New Mexico
I'm moving to where you live! Toronto ON rates are beyond the roof thanks to some bad policies and a lot of auto insurance fraud. I'm paying 225 CAD/Mo and that's considered mid range. Some people pay much more.
The big cities in the US also tend to be a lot more expensive. A lot more accidents, more crime, more claims and more fraud.

I just do not see rural people running to claim damages for any and all minor cosmetic blemishes. I presume it reflects the tendency to view vehicles as tools rather than accoutrements.
 

Twiglett

Single pedal driver
Oct 3, 2014
2,998
2,970
Austin
I had the incremental increases from Farmers as well.
They started being a reasonable price, with discounts for home and life etc, but after years of premiums going up and up I switched to Ameriprise and ended up covering our Honda and Model 3 for less money than Farmers wanted just for my old Leaf.
Of course then they jacked the price of home insurance, so next year thats leaving them as well.
 

terence

New Member
Mar 23, 2019
2
1
Texas
I shopped around and found that the most reasonable quote by far came from Root Car Insurance, at $354 per 6 months. I was already a happy Root customer for a year with my previous car and was very happy to see that they believe Tesla cars are safer and less prone to problems, and therefore are cheaper to insure.
  • Tesla Model 3 Long-Range Dual Motor (2018)
  • Location: Texas
  • Collision - $1000 deductible
  • Comprehensive - $1000 deductible
  • Bodily Injury - $250k/$500k
  • Property Damage - $100k
Total cost - $354 per 6 months

Root Car Insurance

Full disclosure: This is a referral link. You and I both get $25 if you sign up. But I stand by my recommendation even if there's no financial incentive. Root seems like a innovative insurance company that is mobile-first, no-frills and affordable. And they love Tesla customers.
 
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