Interest in separate heating and cooling setpoints

[BR666T]

I am posting this in the Canada forum, partly because this is a cross-model issue and partly because this will affect Canadian owners more than countries with more temperate climates.

I wish that Tesla allowed us to have separate heating and cooling setpoints. In other words, a heating setpoint below which the car heater turns on and a cooling setpoint above which the A/C kicks in.

For me, a cabin temperature between 19 and 21 degC is perfectly comfortable. I would rather save energy by not heating or cooling within this range.

A practical example: I drove home from work today in warm temperatures and had the car thermostat set to 21, which required the A/C to turn on. In the morning when I drive to work in the cool air, I will have to turn the temperature down to 19 or the heating will turn on, which is unnecessary for me and therefore wastes energy.

At this time of year, I find myself continuously adjusting the heat up and down to save energy and be comfortable. Even if heating and cooling used no energy at all, I would not want to have the heat set to 20 degC (for example) all the time. 20 degC is ok in the winter, but too cold for me in the summer. Conversely, 21 degC is too warm for me in the winter.

I know, first world problems. But this would be easy to implement. Does anyone else feel the same?

 

[camalaio]

This is kinda what climate control systems do, you just don't see it and pick only one middle number.

I think your problem (I'm partially projecting based on my own complaints as well) is that you just don't know what it's doing and don't have control over it, and the power used may be "not worth it" for that 1 degree difference. My problem is on a day like today, if I set it to 21C, what's it gonna do? I absolutely don't want it to heat (which it just might at 18C outside), maaaybe AC if I'm in the direct sun. It'll totally heat a bit sometimes in this case.

I bop that AC button off frequently for this purpose (and any ICE vehicle has the same sort of button), but we don't have a "Heater" button. This is crazy because it draws way more power. Some other EVs do have a toggle like that.

The reason ICE vehicles don't have a "Heater" button is twofold:

• All the way "cold" with AC off means "fresh air"
• All the way "hot" means "free waste heat"

Actually, it's more complicated.

ICE w/ basic controls (dials)

• AC off: Blue (fresh air) -> white (mix) -> red ("free heat")
• AC on: Blue (cold) -> white (mix/dehumidify) -> red (heat + dehumidify)
• "Vent" mode is just blue w/o AC.

ICE w/ climate controls (exact temperature selection)

• Pick temp, but still control if AC is on or off
• Heat is free
• "Vent" mode is usually available in some way

EV w/ climate controls (exact temperature selection)

• Pick temp, only control AC on/off
• Heat is expensive
• "Vent" mode is available by setting temp to LOW and AC off. Kinda like ICE w/ old dials?!

EV w/ basic controls (dials)

• THIS IS ACTUALLY WHAT I WANT TESLA
• I CAN INTUITIVELY CONTROL HOW MUCH HEAT/COLD THIS WAY
• TESLA PLEASE DO THIS
• Blue (use all the AC) -> white (fresh air) -> red (use all the heat)
• Maybe + a dehumidify option that runs both heater and AC. I dunno. Just give me controls please.

It's crazy that they adopted the completely unfitting ICE mindset for the climate controls.

This is all made worse by the fact the app can actually tell you what it's doing in the climate control section (the arrows change between blue/white/red depending what it's currently doing). But not anywhere in the car! So I have to be in an area with cellular signal so my car can tell Tesla "hey I'm heating right now" so my phone can ask Tesla "hey what's the car doing right now" when THE CAR IS RIGHT HERE AND I'M NOT ALLOWED TO USE A PHONE WHILE DRIVING.

Can you tell I feel strongly about this?!

EDIT: It's probably worth pointing out I don't actually like fancy climate control systems. I much prefer to control the temp of the airstream, not the cabin. I get a bit happy every time I get to drive a vehicle with basic controls. Never really understood why people like to set & forget (I don't adjust it that often anyways, so it's not a burden).

 

[bpjod]

I leave mine at 21.5C pretty much all the time. If the car is comfortable and I can hear the fan and don’t think heating or cooling is necessary, I simply press and hold the fan icon which turns off the HVAC system. If it starts getting too warm or cool I turn it on the same way. Really simple.

 

[BR666T]

I leave mine at 21.5C pretty much all the time. If the car is comfortable and I can hear the fan and don’t think heating or cooling is necessary, I simply press and hold the fan icon which turns off the HVAC system. If it starts getting too warm or cool I turn it on the same way. Really simple.

If this works for you, that's great. I don't want to have the fan turned off due to condensation build-up. Plus, this requires manual intervention.

 

[Birdman325]

I had this happen to me this morning. Temp was set at 21 with the button on because when I got out of the car last night it was warm and I had the AC running to cool down the car.
This morning I got in the car early so it was still cool out. I didn’t need / want the AC so i turned off the AC button but as soon as I did that, it started heating the car up to the set point of 21. Interesting. I then had to bump the temp down so the heat wouldn’t run. I guess what I should have done is just turn it “off”.

 

[BR666T]

I think your problem (I'm partially projecting based on my own complaints as well) is that you just don't know what it's doing and don't have control over it, and the power used may be "not worth it" for that 1 degree difference..

That's not the case. I know that if the temperature drops below the setpoint that the heater will turn on. I know that if the temperature rises above the setpoint the A/C will turn on (if enabled).

My problem is on a day like today, if I set it to 21C, what's it gonna do? I absolutely don't want it to heat (which it just might at 18C outside), maaaybe AC if I'm in the direct sun. It'll totally heat a bit sometimes in this case.

Exactly why I want to be able to set the heating setpoint at 19 degrees and the cooling at 21 degrees. The temperature would be able to fluctuate within that range using the fan only without using extra heating or cooling energy.

I bop that AC button off frequently for this purpose (and any ICE vehicle has the same sort of button), but we don't have a "Heater" button. This is crazy because it draws way more power. Some other EVs do have a toggle like that.

I end up turning on and off the A/C button or increasing the setpoint as well. If I could just set the A/C cool temp at 21 degrees though, I would just leave the A/C on all the time because I do want it to kick in above that.

But your idea is another way to go. Being able to control whether heat or A/C is enabled. I think it requires more intervention than two setpoints, but perhaps gives more control overall.

 

[camalaio]

That's not the case. I know that if the temperature drops below the setpoint that the heater will turn on. I know that if the temperature rises above the setpoint the A/C will turn on (if enabled).



Exactly why I want to be able to set the heating setpoint at 19 degrees and the cooling at 21 degrees. The temperature would be able to fluctuate within that range using the fan only without using extra heating or cooling energy.



I end up turning on and off the A/C button or increasing the setpoint as well. If I could just set the A/C cool temp at 21 degrees though, I would just leave the A/C on all the time because I do want it to kick in above that.

But your idea is another way to go. Being able to control whether heat or A/C is enabled. I think it requires more intervention than two setpoints, but perhaps gives more control overall.

Something I probably should have pointed out earlier is that smarter climate control systems (maybe this is just common, my Honda did this to an extent) don't do heating/cooling just based off the current temperature. They use whatever combo of info they have: current cabin temp, outside air temp, humidity, how much sun is coming in, number of occupants (they are heaters as well!), etc. You would accommodate these yourself as well if you had full control, because these are all things that impact how the air feels to you. Tesla is definitely doing this to a certain extent, though I don't know all their variables.

Say you set it for 21C on a sunny, 18C day and the cabin is at 21C. I bet you the AC will be on, and it will feel comfortable.
Say you set it for 21C on a gloomy, wet 18C day and the cabin is at 21C. I bet you the heat will be on, and it will feel comfortable.

This is kinda why people say "just set it and forget about it", it actually gets complicated quickly if you want it to be comfortable. With the above example, think what would occur if they didn't account for the solar load on the car. On the sunny day, it'd probably get too hot and/or ramp up and down instead of being steady (and you'd be tempted to change the settings). On the gloomy day, you'd be fiddling with it to bump up the heat more often.

I didn't capture it well, but the heating/cooling power is somewhat variable. Having thresholds starts treating them more like on/off switches, which would make a whole different group of people unhappy. On the sunny day, it'd get to, say, 22C before kicking on the AC (perhaps too warm, given the sun is also beating down on you and directly heating you!). On the gloomy day, it's gonna dip all the way to 20C before the heat comes on, which will feel very quite a bit colder than 22C w/ the sun beating on you.

And that circles me back to my request... if they just give manual controls, Tesla doesn't have to figure out a climate control algorithm that makes everyone happy!

 

[Birdman325]

The main reason why I am more focused on this and why it is more relevant to my Model 3 (and EVs in general) is because of the material impact heating has on range / battery. It is true, I don't really care whether the AC is on or not on, and I would generally be pretty happy with a set it and forget it mentality - set it at 20.5 C or 21 C or wherever and let the car figure out whether or not the AC needs to run or the heat needs to run.

But because when the heat runs, it impacts range in a more material way than in an ICE car, that is why I pay closer attention to it.

 

[BR666T]

The main reason why I am more focused on this and why it is more relevant to my Model 3 (and EVs in general) is because of the material impact heating has on range / battery. It is true, I don't really care whether the AC is on or not on, and I would generally be pretty happy with a set it and forget it mentality - set it at 20.5 C or 21 C or wherever and let the car figure out whether or not the AC needs to run or the heat needs to run.

But because when the heat runs, it impacts range in a more material way than in an ICE car, that is why I pay closer attention to it.

Completely agree. So would you like the ability to have a different setpoint for heating? Or just be able to turn heating off?

 

[Birdman325]

If there would be an on / off toggle for heat, in the same way that there is for AC, that would probably solve it.