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Interest in Wheels/Tires Designed for Range Increases of 8-13%?

Interest in Which Size/Finish?


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I think a larger part of the aftermarket is chasing range over performance considering how much Tesla owners spend on the larger batteries. Most people spend thousands on the larger batteries that if other areas could achieve that, it should be worth exploring. Hence Unplugged Performance released its white papers on range increasing products. And seeing how the take rate for 18s is above 50% on all Model 3 purchases, I suspect range is a factor to many buyers as well.

I know the following things contribute to range:

1) Wheels/Tires
2) Speed
3) Temp.

In the past, Tesla used to have a range calculator to educate Tesla Model S/X owners. I've attached a gif of one after the 2016.5 Refresh to the TMS: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/0*KxV0JpSIUbrPvvgv.gif

Speed requires self-modulation. Outside temperatures we can not control. But Wheels/Tires we can. If you look at the Range Chart, you will see how much the wheel sizing impacts range and why so many 19" or P3D+ owners complain: https://teslike.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/mi6b.gif

I'm in the exploratory phase with a replica wheel company (similar to TSportline, etc use) and we've exchanged some data. We've identified two areas to pick up range:

1) Going with the smallest wheel diameter that clears over the brakes. That means 17s for all Non-Performance Model 3s, 18s for the Performance Model 3, and 18s for the TMS/X.

2) Going skinnier with the tire to reduce resistance when traveling down the road without sacrificing Load Ratings.

Few things I need to confirm:

1) We now know TSportline 18" TST's fit over Model 3 Performance (P3D+/PUP) Brakes. Do we have confirmation from anyone if the 18" Aero's do? Do we have confirmation that the 18" Wheel Barrel of the Aero's are big enough? I believe they may need a spacer to clear the lip on the hub of a P3D+ from the back. But similar to TSportline a wheel can be designed for those clearances. I imagine if they Brakes don't clear, its the caliper touching the spokes of the 18" Aeros. If that is the case, the design and offset could be changed slightly to cure those issues. We are trying to include the P3D+ in these conversations so that Winter tire options are also available.

2) I've found only one 17" Wheel that is (now discontinued) that cleared the front and rear brakes of a standard TM3. It was the Fast Wheels Rennen F181 which has an aggressive wheel barrel design to clear BBKs. It cleared by 1/8" or 3mm over the rear calipers. I'm trying to replicate that for standard TM3s in a 17" for max range with 215/55/17s. The goal is 7.7% additional range or 350miles on the Long Range RWD TM3. To put it in perspective, a TM3 Mid Range would have about increase range from 264 to 285 miles (MORE than a Long Range Dual Motor with 19s at 280miles or a Performance Model 3 Dual Motor with 20s at 273miles). Aero Covers may need to be trimmed to fit a smaller wheel. TBD.

3) I also confirmed 18" Steel Wheel clears the Model S/X Brakes (Ps are the same Calipers in Red, unlike the P3D+ which are bigger brakes.) We are trying to make a Replica Tesla Aero Wheel in 18" on a 5x120 so that the Stock Aero Covers can be used. I'm running into slight design issue because when the center pattern of the wheel changes, it throws of the angels around the spoke pattern. The bolt pattern change to 5x120 may require more material around the center of the wheel than the current 18" Tesla Model 3 Aero wheel has for a 5x114.3" Bolt Pattern. If we don't maintain the geometry closely, we will lose the ability to use the Aero Wheel Covers on the TMS/X wheels. But once figured out, the Aero Covers should have some aftermarket demand.

For the TMS: combined with 225/55/18 + Aero Wheel Covers should help increase range over the 19s by an estimated 8.1%. For the newly improved TMS Long Range, that means 370miles will now be 400miles.

For the TMX: combined with 235/65/18s + Aero Wheel Covers should help increase range over the 20s by an estimated 13.2%. For the newly improved TMX Long Range, that means 325miles will now be 368miles. Note the difference between a 2019 100D Model X with 20" and 22" Wheels/Tires on the range chart. The 20" wheels have a 291mile range, and the 22" wheels have a 237mile range.

As for tire choices, I've also found preliminary data to suggest the Vredestein Quatrac5 being more efficient as a tire choice over others (see: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=231) This should help the projected range increases above. Combined with Low Noise (a factor for EV owners) data support using these or similar tires as the All-Year Tire Choice.

Also note, for winter weather use, Skinnier Tires cut through snow and ice instead of plowing on top of it. Quoted from https://blog.tirerack.com/blog/hunters-ramblings/why-are-narrower-tires-better-for-winter:
"As you're shopping for winter wheels and tires, you'll likely come across the recommendation of going to a narrower tire...you'll want winter/snow tires and wheels in sizes that help put the laws of physics on your side.
The reason for this is that traction is achieved in winter by cutting through the ice and snow. With wider tread, you're more likely to start snow plowing or floating on top of the surface instead of pushing down and through. This floating will result in loss of traction sooner than with a thinner or narrower option. A good way to picture this is imagine a pizza cutter slicing through a pizza...When the footprint gets narrower as it will with a narrower width tire, it has to get longer. And the mechanics of the longer footprint help with the longitudinal traction for acceleration and braking."

For all of those reasons, data suggests that the current wheel and tire packages being offered are not optimized towards range or in the case of winter tires, towards winter traction. The best 235/45/18 winter tire will still not be as good as the best winter tire in a similarly tall 215/50/18s for a comparable Tesla Model 3. For those reasons, tires currently in consideration for package pricing are:

1) 215/55/17 98V - Vredestein Quatrac5 - For standard Tesla Model 3 on 17" Wheels.
2) 215/55/17 98H - Michelin X-Ice XI3 - For Winter use on standard Tesla Model 3 on 17" Wheels.
3) 215/50/18 92V - Pirelli Winter SottoZero 3 - For Winter use on Performance Model 3 on 18" wheels. This meets the Minimum Load Rating of the Tesla Model 3 (20" Performance Model 3s have a 235/35/20 92Y)
4) 225/55/18 98V - Vredestein Quatrac5 - For all Tesla Model S on 18" Wheels.
5) 225/55/18 98H - Michelin X-Ice XI3 - For Winter use on all Tesla Model S on 18" Wheels.
6) 235/65/18 110H - Nokian Rotiiva HT - For all Tesla Model X on 18" Wheels. This meets the Maximum Load Rating of the Tesla Model X to tow 500/4960# (see: https://i.imgur.com/oz8peCd.jpg) However, Speed Rating of H is limited to 130mph.
7) 235/65/18 110H - Continental WinterContact SI - For all Tesla Model X on 18" Wheels. Speed Limit reduced to 130mph.

Tires have not been finalized. But these Wheel/Tire Packages are focussed around Safety (Load Ratings), Comfort (Noise) and Efficiency (Range).

Finishes are probably going to be Metallic Grey or Matte Black. I've realized many wish the lip of the 18" Aero Rim that is exposed with the Covers on were the darker finish of the Aero Covers so it didn't stand out as much. This should work well with the OEM Onyx Black Tesla Center Caps from the Model X if someone wanted to run without the Aero Covers as well.

Pricing is targetted to be:
1) ~ $279/wheel for the 17x7s that would fit Tesla Model 3, except Performance.
2) ~ $289/wheel for the 18x7s that would fit Tesla Model 3, including Performance.
3) ~ $299/wheel for the 18x7.5s that would fit Tesla Model S/X, including Performance.

To Compare to TSPortline's pricing for mounted wheels/tires, their 18" TST starts at $2400 and goes up to $2900. In comparison, these should come right at $1999 for a set of 4 18x7 Wheels, with 4 Vredestein Quatrac 5 Tires, + New Tire Pressure Monitor Sensors, + Mounting and Roadforce Balancing. Less than $100 more for the Winter Package.

To note, the ratings projected are projected based on EPA ratings. We understand regardless of the car, EPA ratings never match the real world. That said, we hope that these projected increases based on the EPA rated cycle yield usable range increases to people.

If this seems of interest to you, please provide your feedback. Thanks.
 

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No f'ing way I'd put narrower tires on a Model 3 or S/X. It reduces safety by increasing stopping distance and hurts cornering ability. I'm no granny-driver and the ability to rapidly accelerate needs to be countered by the ability to stop or corner. Everything is a compromise and I'd never advocate compromising braking and handling for a little more range by using narrower tires. These are "2-ton killing machines" [Elon Musk] and the thought of 215 tires on a 3P makes me cringe.
 
My Prius experiments:
  • larger circumference tires on drive wheels - works as a poor man's, over drive. Some acceleration is lost but the true MPG improved because of slower rotation.
  • higher tire pressure - buy tires (often light truck tires) with highest maximum pressure and run the hard tires.
  • low rolling resistance - I don't believe any claims over the first two factors.
Bob Wilson
 
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No f'ing way I'd put narrower tires on a Model 3 or S/X. It reduces safety by increasing stopping distance and hurts cornering ability. I'm no granny-driver and the ability to rapidly accelerate needs to be countered by the ability to stop or corner. Everything is a compromise and I'd never advocate compromising braking and handling for a little more range by using narrower tires. These are "2-ton killing machines" [Elon Musk] and the thought of 215 tires on a 3P makes me cringe.

The aero wheel and tire combo is already a compromise relative to the 3P. Likely at least 10, or even possibly 20 ft longer stopping distances from 60 MPH. Those MXM4s aren't that sticky.
 
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My Prius experiments:
  • larger circumference tires on drive wheels - works as a poor man's, over drive. Some acceleration is lost but the true MPG improved because of slower rotation.
  • higher tire pressure - buy tires (often light truck tires) with highest maximum pressure and run the hard tires.
  • low rolling resistance - I don't believe any claims over the first two factors.
Bob Wilson
LT tires even if they are available in a use for a car tire size would offer no efficiency advantage. Even though they run higher PSI they are much heavier than p metric tires so you would lose any PSI advantage with much more rotational mass. I lose 15-20% mpg when I put LT tires on my Land Cruiser.
 
No f'ing way I'd put narrower tires on a Model 3 or S/X. It reduces safety by increasing stopping distance and hurts cornering ability. I'm no granny-driver and the ability to rapidly accelerate needs to be countered by the ability to stop or corner. Everything is a compromise and I'd never advocate compromising braking and handling for a little more range by using narrower tires. These are "2-ton killing machines" [Elon Musk] and the thought of 215 tires on a 3P makes me cringe.

Notice, the 215/50/18s are for winter use on a P3D+ where a dedicated winter tire is needed. If that is the case, the 235 is the compromise in winter weather. And an Infiniti G35x weights close to the same as a Tesla Model 3, and wears 215/55/17s from the factory. It's "load rating" the determines how much load a tire can handle. Tire width determines contact patch.

My Prius experiments:
  • larger circumference tires on drive wheels - works as a poor man's, over drive. Some acceleration is lost but the true MPG improved because of slower rotation.
  • higher tire pressure - buy tires (often light truck tires) with highest maximum pressure and run the hard tires.
  • low rolling resistance - I don't believe any claims over the first two factors.
Bob Wilson

No one is increasing circumference. These tires all have the same overall diameter.

The aero wheel and tire combo is already a compromise relative to the 3P. Likely at least 10, or even possibly 20 ft longer stopping distances from 60 MPH. Those MXM4s aren't that sticky.

Exactly. Many P3D- owners say the same thing. But those same owners who put on Pilot Sport 4S in 235/45/18 noticed better performance than the P3D+ with better range. Again supporting the theory of rotational inertia with the large wheels.


I like the idea, but your sizes are way too narrow for cars of these weights. The proposed sizes actually sound dangerous.

You did not speak much of about weight which is also a big factor in efficiency.

What kind of weights are you targeting?

Weights will be slightly lighter than OEM. A similar weight wheel and tire combo in 19 or 20 with same tire compound will have the 19 do better in range. So yes weight matters, but like a flywheel where the weight is concentrated matters the most. In most cases, the weight of a wheel is primarily in the barrel. Also at lower speeds, a lighter weight wheel/tire combo will yield better range than a heavier one. But at higher highway speeds, aerodynamics come into factor more.

I don't understand and can't support neutering the performance capability of my car. Absolute efficiency isn't the only factor. If it were, I'd be riding an electric scooter.

I don't disagree. That said, I think people really assume the narrower tire means 0 grip. That's not the case. 215/55/17s have been used in Infiniti G35x as OEM and those things were pigs. Tire compound matters and the Vredesteins are truly great tires while being efficient.

I think many also forget that some of the heaviest trucks towing a ton that need cornering stability ride on tall, skinny tires. But they have the right load rating to do their jobs.

Still waiting on more computer modeling. But these are some good comments worth addressing.
 
I understand the science and the math and what it tells you. What you claim applies to straight line travel where a skinny "may pop" spare can out accelerate a sticky race tire. However I'm sticking to my caveman sensibility and will not promote turning the car into a nerd mobile. Keep that to the bolt, prius, and leaf. Grow some hair on your chest and put 265's or wider on your car. ;-)
 
I think a larger part of the aftermarket is chasing range over performance considering how much Tesla owners spend on the larger batteries.

I'm not sure how accurate this statement is. Is there any data on it? For many LR vehicle owners I know, it's more of a nice-to-have with extra performance being mostly the reason they went with a larger battery. My daily commute is <20 miles so range isn't a priority but I went with 18s only because of all the potholes around here.
 
I would actually love the ability to put aero wheels on my P3D+ keep us updated.

AFAIK, the 18" Aero rims do not clear the Performance Upgrade brake calipers.

I need confirmation, but the 18" Aeros may only need spacers to have the calipers clear the spokes. I know on another FB thread, an owner did that. But he never provided information on the sized spacers, etc. And without proof of pictures, I can't confirm or deny. Hence my initial comment on if we have confirmation. It's clear some 18" wheels clear PUP brakes.

I'm not sure how accurate this statement is. Is there any data on it? For many LR vehicle owners I know, it's more of a nice-to-have with extra performance being mostly the reason they went with a larger battery. My daily commute is <20 miles so range isn't a priority but I went with 18s only because of all the potholes around here.

I'm repeating a claim made by Ben Schafer/Unplugged Performance. I do not have data to back it up, but I also assume Ben is as informed as they get on these matters.

I understand the science and the math and what it tells you. What you claim applies to straight line travel where a skinny "may pop" spare can out accelerate a sticky race tire. However I'm sticking to my caveman sensibility and will not promote turning the car into a nerd mobile. Keep that to the bolt, prius, and leaf. Grow some hair on your chest and put 265's or wider on your car. ;-)

A 215 vs 235 width is 20mm difference, much different than a "may pop" spare running a 155/70/18 (https://www.amazon.com/2017-2018-Tesla-Model-Complete-Spare/dp/B07FXBJ3V8) running a completely different tire compound.

The purpose here is for someone to yield more range for their commute and still enjoy their car on track occasions. I'm on the Northeast where I travel between Philly, DC, NYC, and Boston a bit. My Dual Motor could use the extra range to make those round trips. I used to track my NSX and I've experimented quite a bit with wheel/tire combos. My "street" look actually uses 315/25/19s in the rear, but the track tires were always 275/35/17s out back. When I started drag racing with the P100DL, I learned we picked up time by going from 19s to 18s. Something TeslaRacing has recently been fighting with as well going back to 19" hard Michelins:
and

Regardless, I think those of us who want to extract range on our daily use and handling on our track sessions can do so. But for mosts, the "data" supports cruising vs tracking. Hence why majority 3-series/C-Class/A4s, etc are fitted without any "sport" or "performance" package. And although many of us on the forums are more performance oriented, I think that is a sample-bias. And if my "one car" can do more things well by limiting the compromising "wheel/tire choice" than its worth considering. Especially since Tesla spends much effort trying to eek every mile out of its existing cars.
 
If you get the stock aero wheels via spacers I WOULD LOVE YOU. About to go on my 1st road trip right now and almost hating myself for getting a P3D+ instead of the LR RWD (my original config as seen in my sig). Would love that range back for road trips.

Plus aero wheels are pretty cheap on craigslist (~$1000-1200)
 
If you get the stock aero wheels via spacers I WOULD LOVE YOU. About to go on my 1st road trip right now and almost hating myself for getting a P3D+ instead of the LR RWD (my original config as seen in my sig). Would love that range back for road trips.

Plus aero wheels are pretty cheap on craigslist (~$1000-1200)

Wheel Adapters, Wheel Spacers, Hub Rings for your car! | Motorsport Tech Is the vendor that has made these spacers. If I had access to a P3D+ (I'm in Philly) then I could test fit this ASAP. Otherwise, my recommendation is to meet up with a local TM3 owner and measure the difference. Many have installed 15-20mm (fr) / 20-25 (rr) hub-centric spacers, so I imagine if you wanted to get custom ones made to clear the hub lip, you could and they would be usable on your existing wheels or buy a test wheel: Used take off 18" TESLA MODEL 3 2017 2018 OEM FACTORY WHEEL RIM AERO 1044221-00B | eBay
 
If you get the stock aero wheels via spacers I WOULD LOVE YOU. About to go on my 1st road trip right now and almost hating myself for getting a P3D+ instead of the LR RWD (my original config as seen in my sig). Would love that range back for road trips.

Plus aero wheels are pretty cheap on craigslist (~$1000-1200)
If you end up checking the spacers that carcrazed is mentioning let us know... There is a guy near me who has a brand new set of aero wheels+tires for cheap that I'm seriously considering if I can adapt them for P3D+
Also some people have mentioned using these spacers: https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Spacers-5x114-3-5x120-7-5x120-65/dp/B01N0EXFGZ/ to clear the P3D lip....

Also, seems like the fronts definitely have the clearance (would need spacer anyways to accomodate the lip on the P3D+, but rears might need the spacer to push things out to work? details and images here: Confirmed: Performance Red Brakes DO NOT fit 18" aero wheels

Although reading futher in the thread, seems like spacers may not do too much to make it clear... would have to file down the slight square bump on the calipers, but nobody has actually test fit it with a spacer, so who knows... Wonder how much benefit you'd get from running just the fronts on aero..... and how weird would it look?
 
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