TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Interesting counter piece on the WSJ editorial

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by dirkhh, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
  2. Auzie

    Auzie Tree Hugger Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    Sydney
    #2 Auzie, Apr 2, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
    Interesting article, thanks for posting. I find it very interesting how some people have strong negative opinions of Elon. They tend to use very disrespectful, sometimes disparaging language when speaking about Elon or his achievements. That misplaced negative language gives away how strongly they feel about Elon, and I am not sure what motivates them. I certainly fail to see anything about Elon that may invite such responses, quite the opposite.

    It is much easier to understand the passionate following that Elon also attracts, for many very good reasons. Even simple neutrality and indifference is more understandable, if Elon is not their cup of tea.
     
  3. uselesslogin

    uselesslogin Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,299
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    When I see the strong negative language around Elon this is what I think of:
    Revenge of the Nerds - NERDS! - YouTube
     
  4. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Oh, make no mistake, Elon is a very unpleasant person. A good friend of mine used to work directly for him (before Tesla) and he calls him a brilliant sociopath. So do many others who interacted with him on a personal level (the tech industry is surprisingly small - when asking around last year I was surprised how many friends of mine knew him). Also Google some of what his first wife has to say about him. So yes, I can see why there are many people who dislike him as a person. But as a business person he has proven quite talented and visionary.

    None of this should make a difference when writing about Tesla, though. I think what drives much of the negative press is envy and unwillingness to adjust to disruption.

    Compare all this to writing a decade ago about Jeff Bezos and Amazon. Very similar. And similarly amazing and disruptive companies, too.
     
  5. hummingbird

    hummingbird Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2014
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Tesla Country
    #5 hummingbird, Apr 2, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
    Can you tell us more? Give us more details? Show us some links? Show us some facts? What bad things have Elon done and/or have said? (e.g. to/from x-wife, x-workers, etc)

    I am not criticizing or arguing. I am simply looking for real evidence of "sociopath".

    I can't find much.

    (of course we have all heard Elon is hard to work for, for example JB has said so, because Elon is very demanding and expect people to work hard and do a great job)
     
  6. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    I thought what Justine has written about him was well known: For example you can start here: http://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/relationship-issues/millionaire-starter-wife

    There have been a few public pieces that characterize Elon as "sociopath". One would be here: Sociopath World: Famous sociopaths: Elon Musk?

    It's harder to bring "evidence" of my personal conversations... because the moment I write something here, the "true believers" will simply say that I can't prove any of this and of course in so many ways I can't. The consistent comments are a) he has no empathy. He fundamentally doesn't care what you feel, what impact decisions have on you or your family - this may be excellent for customers or shareholders, it's rather unpleasant when working for him. b) he has a true messiah complex - two people independently said "he thinks he is God's gift to the world" - and the second time this happened, another friend overhearing our conversation laughed and said "no, he told me that's wrong - he thinks he IS God".

    Don't get me wrong. I think he's a brilliant CEO and Tesla wouldn't be where it is today without him. My only comment was on the earlier statement where @Auzie said that he couldn't understand why people would dislike Elon. And since I both personally know people who despise Elon as a person and have read quite a few articles describing him as rather unlikable, I figured I'd comment.

    I have no personal knowledge, never met him (and I'm ok with that), have no interest in bad mouthing him. I own a Model S, have a Model X reservation and am a happy TSLA shareholder.
    (this last sentence to deal with the near-certain hate mail that I will get after posting this - thankfully negative reputation points are gone or I'd easily lose 50 points :) )
     
  7. Familial Rhino

    Familial Rhino Endangerous Herbivore

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I've read the linked articles, and... I dunno.

    The first is written by his ex-wife, and based on my experience with friends getting divorced, I think forming opinions about a person based on what you hear from his/her ex-partner is not the best path to understanding what that person is about. I don't mean this as an attack on her credibility. It's just that the dissolution of a marriage tends to make people see things through a lens not always relevant for people on the outside. And as usual with these things, there is another side to that story.

    The second link is really weak. It's just a random guy's speculation, based not on meeting Musk, but on reading an article in the New Yorker, in which Musk makes statements like "Most people think gravity ends when you get two hundred miles above the earth. Most people don't know much." On another thread, we were just discussing O'Reilly declaiming on his show that tides cannot be explained... I mean, if being a geek and sardonically stating the obvious makes one a sociopath, half of my graduating class should be locked up.

    I actually don't doubt that he's very demanding as a boss. Maybe he does have a cold streak. Then again, it may only be how he is being perceived by people who find it hard to always perform at the level required to repeatedly put rockets in orbit. I guess all I'm saying is, there is too much uncertainty in these anecdotes to really influence my opinion on him one way or another.
     
  8. hummingbird

    hummingbird Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2014
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Tesla Country
    #8 hummingbird, Apr 2, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
    dirkhh: Thank you for your note and those two links (Justine Musk and New Yorker). Now I do recall briefly skimming Justine's article a few years ago.

    Her article did not make a deep impression on me then and does not now. That's probably why I did not remember it.

    I read the summary of the New Yorker article, but not the original full version.

    Elon Musk is an ultra smart and ultra ambitious person. I think we can all agree on that. (many would say he qualifies as a genius)

    Given his accomplishments, vision and ambition, Elon Musk is one of those very special people. (IMO, significantly more special than Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, Sergey Brin, Larry Page, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, ...)

    The two things Elon wants to accomplish are simply breathtaking: 1) Rid of big oil ASAP to save the earth from global warming if possible, and 2) increase the probability of human survival by populating other planets. Populate other planets? Look out your window and look up to the sky now, and think about that for a moment !

    Crazy ambitions, yet very logical. Because we have the technology.

    His first wife simply was not good/smart enough for Elon as they grew apart over the years. Elon is a fast learner and therefore a fast grower. Justine might have seemed the right match many years ago, but she is not anymore. So they went their separate ways. Perfectly normal and not surprising given Elon's amazing growth over the past 20 years.

    It is of course perfectly normal for humans to have many partners in a life. I would not be surprised when he brings in a third wife down the road. I would not be surprised if the three wives got along with each other (as the first two does today). If Elon can run SpaceX and Tesla from M-F, he can run two wives Sat/Sun no problem. Five boys I am not so sure.

    I just looked this up, the definition of sociopath is:

    "a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience"

    Elon Musk is not a sociopath. He is not antisocial. He does not lack conscience. Quiet the opposite in fact.
     
  9. pz1975

    pz1975 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    494
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC, Canada
    Anyone using the term "sociopath" and Elon Musk in the same sentence is not qualified to be using such a term. It's the same way that ignorant people think that a schizophrenic means having multiple personalities.

    He may have some personality issues (I have no idea - I have never and likely will never meet him), but I imagine that many of those traits that some people do not like help him be the amazing visionary and businessperson that he is. All I know is that when he speaks, I trust him and believe what he says.
     
  10. Auzie

    Auzie Tree Hugger Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,903
    Location:
    Sydney
    Thank you for links. After reading both of them, I just feel more admiration for Elon. I also see how difficult it must have been for him to be put in a position to talk publicly about his very personal choices.

    In the first link, I really dislike how his ex wife talks down his new wife. Marriage is not an entitlement, we are free to choose who we live or do not live with. Someone else's fruits of labour are also not an entitlement, Justine better go and make her own fortune if she wishes to have one, no sympathy at all here for her legal fights. I can write off Justine's bitterness to a terrible blow of losing so much, but that is life, we all suffer losses.

    Regarding Elon being called sociopath that is a pure nonsense. The statement " a narcissistically grandiose sense of "duty to save the world." tells me more about the writer than Elon. I would like to think that we all feel the same duty to save the world and there is nothing narcissistic about that, quite the opposite.
     
  11. RunningOnMangoes

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    NYC
    "sociopath" would be an example of James Bond not Elon Musk. Elon is helping us achieve what others have said we will achieve in the distant future. For Elon the future is here and just listen to the man. Elon talked about the hyperloop to better the lives of mankind. The companies Elon is building is to better mankind. There will always be haters. Screw them.
     
  12. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    I agree. There will always be blind fan-boys. Humor them.
     
  13. brianstorms

    brianstorms Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    753
    Location:
    ...
    I'd love to hear the stories about when Elon apparently worked as an intern for Microsoft. Yes, Microsoft. In Canada in the 1990s. Apparently this chapter of his life has been quietly removed from the canonical biography, but I don't know why.
     
  14. I would love to read a full biography on Elon, as in a published book, with accounts from both Elon and his closest family and friends, from the time he grew up in Pretoria, through his youth years when he was being ridiculed, even harassed by his peers for being "too smart" (as per his mother's statements), how it had an impact on him, then the time when he decided to start a game arcade business with Kimbal, then created and sold his first "Space blaster" game, then when he decided to emigrate to Canada to avoid serving the South African military during apartheid, his time in Canada and the decision to go to the US to study, and the rest of his amazing life.

    There are plenty of interviews with him and articles about him, but a full book with all the details in one place, as I said, with accounts from him and his closest family and friends would be a must read for everyone. It would be my daily read for sure.

    P.S. I really can't see the connection people make about Elon being "the next Steve Jobs"! Granted, they may have similarities, but Elon's mission in life is on such a grander scale than that of Jobs, it's just amazing.
     

Share This Page