But isn't range mode the only way to get full torque sleep in a dual motor car, or have they changed the implementation?
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But isn't range mode the only way to get full torque sleep in a dual motor car, or have they changed the implementation?
Warmer temperatures do make the battery age faster, that's a well known fact. By how much is really hard to say. Obviously 10 degree difference are not a big difference. And since we drive the car only for an hour or two a day and it sits for the rest of the time, the impact is probably very little. And if you live in Arizona, your battery is boiling all the time anyways LOL
This is really unfortunate. "Range mode" does way too much stuff. You should be able to do things like not wasting energy on the battery heater and allowing for torque sleep without breaking climate control or cooking the battery in the summer.
It still is. But if I were in charge of the feature I'd make it transparent. It's not very difficult, I think, For example, if select normal performance mode i.e. sport on a P90D, then force torque sleep on. Also if you've entered cruise mode and/or there haven't been aggressive throttle inputs in n seconds, then enable torque sleep in any mode. Where n is a learned value based on previous transitions to and from aggressive throttle inputs. Of course, if you could just improve torque sleep to the point where there is no on latency, then there is no need for a mode switch at all.
Why should any of this have anything to do with other ways of increasing range/decreasing consumption? I'm still a little miffed by why If I drive for 15 minutes in cold weather, I have to have a 5kW battery heater running for 10 of those minutes. Just in time to park and let the car cool down again.... and repeat tomorrow.
It still is. But if I were in charge of the feature I'd make it transparent. It's not very difficult, I think, For example, if select normal performance mode i.e. sport on a P90D, then force torque sleep on. Also if you've entered cruise mode and/or there haven't been aggressive throttle inputs in n seconds, then enable torque sleep in any mode. Where n is a learned value based on previous transitions to and from aggressive throttle inputs. Of course, if you could just improve torque sleep to the point where there is no on latency, then there is no need for a mode switch at all.
Why should any of this have anything to do with other ways of increasing range/decreasing consumption? I'm still a little miffed by why If I drive for 15 minutes in cold weather, I have to have a 5kW battery heater running for 10 of those minutes. Just in time to park and let the car cool down again.... and repeat tomorrow.
I believe the resistive battery heater only comes on when the battery is very cold and the energy gained from a warmer battery is greater than the energy 'spent' on heating it. But then, as your example shows, when the drive is short the energy is more or less wasted. The car doesn't know how long your drive will be, though.
Maybe Tesla should do what every other EV has, an eco-mode. People understand and assume that in Eco Mode the car would not perform quite as well but would use less energy. Even non technical people get that.
Maybe Tesla should do what every other EV has, an eco-mode. People understand and assume that in Eco Mode the car would not perform quite as well but would use less energy. Even non technical people get that.
They should just expose them all as settings. Most of my winter I want no battery heater (maybe unless only when plugged in), full cabin heating, and torque sleep on. Not a possible combination right now.
Option A is the car is smart enough to do the right thing in all scenarios. Option B is give the user the option to select the right things. Unfortunately they went with option C: just pretend the car is smart enough to do the right thing and have few options.
Other cars have no problem having an eco mode for climate control that's separate from eco mode for the powertrain.
We don't know this for sure. But on the other hand, we do know what hotter temperatures do to batteries. Just because Tesla doesn't say something about it one way or another, doesn't mean we can discount what we know about batteries already.
SUN-day Driver
Member
Tesla should definitely say more about what Range Mode does. Last time I was worried about having enough charge for my trip I thought of the Range Mode setting and there's an icon for an info popup about it so I pressed it and it only said in Range Mode cabin climate control may be limited. Since it was nice weather that evening I wasn't using climate control so I didn't bother enabling Range Mode as I thought it wouldn't help (and I can turn ff climate control myself). I made it home but with my white knuckles may have been spared if I had info that Range Mode does more than limit cabin climate control.
Range Mode is what gets me to and from some of my further flung project sites in Eastern Oregon where there are limited charging options. When you're driving 180 miles out to some remote town and have to spend time on the only RV campsite with a 50 amp plug just to get home again, you become very aware of how much electricity Range Mode saves.
But for just running around town, sure, its probably not necessary. Now that we're coming out of winter (yes, I went skiing today!), I'll probably turn range mode off for the summer, as its really the heating in winter that kills range.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I imagine you realize this, so I'm pointing it out mainly for others. I have to believe a much larger factor in your Leaf's improved range in the summer vs. the winter is the fact that warmer air is less dense. Your Tesla, which does have a thermal management system, also probably gets much better range in the summer. (I know mine does.)
I believe that is still the case. I have not seen anything to indicate that range mode is no longer required to maximize the benefits of torque sleep.
I have been monitoring the battery temperature more since. Driving in hot weather and especially when Supercharging, the battery often get's warmer than 30 degree C. The car always seems to warm up the battery to around 30 C in normal model. In range mode it aims for 40 C. But when driving in warm climate the battery itself gets warmer on it's own. So in warm climates there is little difference driving in Range Mode or not.
Supercharging heats up the battery rather quick. On a trip through Arizona last weekend I saw the battery go up to 52 C.
Supercharging heats up the battery rather quick. On a trip through Arizona last weekend I saw the battery go up to 52 C.
GasKilla
No Gas Know Peace
I'm so confused by all this ... I've left my car in range mode for the torque sleep advantage. I'm in SoCal so the temperatures are relatively mild but my garage gets hot in the summer. I plan to keep my car for many years and don't want to prematurely reduce battery life. So I'd love to know what is best for longevity. Plus I've noticed since my last update that the A/C fan will go up to 11 in range mode but in the past it was limited to 8 or 9. That said I don't think the A/C is really reduced anymore
I believe the A/C compressor output is limited in range mode, but they will run the fan at full in range mode now.
When I took delivery yesterday we discussed the implications of range mode and I was told that it really is best used when temperatures are mild, though I doubt using it for relatively short periods at other times (such as just on a road trip) would harm the battery all that much. He did say it shouldn't be left in range mode when the weather was too cold or too hot.
jgs
Active Member
Are the motor/inverter actively cooled? If so, then might there be some energy consumption advantage in cooling them by dumping the heat into the thermal mass of the battery instead of whatever other cooling system is used when range mode isn't active?
I'm trying to work through this and figure out how it fits into my observation of increased efficiency by driving faster (80+) on hot days. If the passive cooling target was increased and therefore no battery power being spent on cooling, the driving faster would take care of the cooling and better efficiency at higher speeds would be observed. At least that's been my observation.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
What are you basing this on?
Jerome Guillen stated very clearly and specifically that torque sleep benefits were maximized with range mode on. If you have facts that disprove Mr. Guillen's statement I'm sure we'd all appreciate your sharing them.
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Did another comparison between range mode and non range mode, with climate control off, Almost entirely highway travel, one ludicrous merge, aiming for about 78mph, and I control for road differences by using evtripplanner fed with my actual trip time. 0 mph wind.
Start: range mode off, 45 psi starting, 49 psi ending, 343Wh/mi, evtripplanner estimate 382Wh/mi
Return: range mode on, 48 psi starting, 50 psi ending, 323Wh/mi, evtripplanner estimate 364Wh/mi
So range mode only got 1.2% better this time, but you'll notice that tire pressure was significantly higher when range mode was on, which probably alone accounts for 1.2%.
I should add, that at low speeds with range mode on you can still quite clearly hear the front motor under more torque.
Start: range mode off, 45 psi starting, 49 psi ending, 343Wh/mi, evtripplanner estimate 382Wh/mi
Return: range mode on, 48 psi starting, 50 psi ending, 323Wh/mi, evtripplanner estimate 364Wh/mi
So range mode only got 1.2% better this time, but you'll notice that tire pressure was significantly higher when range mode was on, which probably alone accounts for 1.2%.
I should add, that at low speeds with range mode on you can still quite clearly hear the front motor under more torque.
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