And temperature. The tool doesn't get anywhere near the winter temperatures we get here.
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And temperature. The tool doesn't get anywhere near the winter temperatures we get here.
I think part of the equation is the inaccuracy of the "rated range" in Model S compared to the range display available in many ICE vehicles. While not perfectly accurate, they are a lot closer. I surmise this is because fuel consumption in the low end of the engines's power output is near idle and at cruising speeds, it stays near this burn rate most of the time. Where in an EV, consumption is way more variable based on incline, speed, wind, weight, etc.
I think the main features that would help here are:
1. Real-time display of how many SC bays are online and in-use. This kind of info is available for blink and charge point. It would be useful in knowing if there is a free bay at the target SC. It would display beautifully right in the native maps app.
2. Minutes until next bay free. So if all bays at an SC are in-use, you know about how long until the next one is free. This wouldn't indicate if there is a line for the free bay, but that's okay.
3. A large LED display on each SC pier/bay that shows time remaining to full charge. So if you pull in you can see the various times to done, look at the queue and know what you are in for.
I think the main features that would help here are:
1. Real-time display of how many SC bays are online and in-use. This kind of info is available for blink and charge point. It would be useful in knowing if there is a free bay at the target SC. It would display beautifully right in the native maps app.
2. Minutes until next bay free. So if all bays at an SC are in-use, you know about how long until the next one is free. This wouldn't indicate if there is a line for the free bay, but that's okay.
3. A large LED display on each SC pier/bay that shows time remaining to full charge. So if you pull in you can see the various times to done, look at the queue and know what you are in for.
Imagine Newark, DE with a cold, rainy nor'easter blowing. It's Thanksgiving weekend, 4 SC bays, all full, 3 cars waiting. My house is 210 miles away and there's no SC on the way home. While I might not need every single mile of a 100% charge, I'll want pretty damn close since there's a 20mph headwind. And I'm not going to jockey my car out of the spot, then back in, avoiding the other 3 folks waiting ... plus whatever they think of the scenario as I'm making them wait, too, not just me.
You might say that's an exceptional circumstance and it is. But you don't necessarily know why the person is waiting to complete a charge. By engaging in conversation you can find out and try to educate. I'll have this same situation in a week in Burlington, NC where I'll need a significant charge to make it into Asheville. I've done it before so know what I need to do (both charge and speed) but the first time I pulled every possible electron.
You might say that's an exceptional circumstance and it is. But you don't necessarily know why the person is waiting to complete a charge. By engaging in conversation you can find out and try to educate. I'll have this same situation in a week in Burlington, NC where I'll need a significant charge to make it into Asheville. I've done it before so know what I need to do (both charge and speed) but the first time I pulled every possible electron.
The difference between the two is that rated range has nothing to do with how you're driving. ICE cars that tell you how many miles you have left are giving that information based on the current rate of consumption or some average of it over the last several miles (BMW averages the last 18 miles to come up with the figure). You can use the energy graph in the Model S to get the same level of accuracy.
I don't think charging to 100% is an issue. It's charging to 100% when you don't need it and when there's a line of people waiting that there's a problem. It's just selfish behavior at that point. LA never sees those kinds of conditions and you can make it to the next supercharger or to your destination in most directions, even with a 60. That said, I think you'll always have those types of people no matter what. All you can do is try to educate them. If they still refuse to see reason, you kind of just have to live with it unfortunately, which it sounds like is what happened at Hawthorne.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
This would be very useful. It'd also help make the right choice in picking a stall from multiple options if all of them are being split already. I'd take the one where the paired car is already winding its charge rate down.
In lieu of this, I'll admit to doing something a few weeks ago when I arrived in Folsom at 8 pm on a Friday eve en route to Tahoe and found all 4 bays occupied with none of the owners in sight (they all presumably went for dinner or shopping): I pressed the button on each of the 4 charge cables to see how far the cars had gotten and how long I might be in for. That temporarily stopped the charging, of course, but, I plugged them right back in to get it going again.
While two of the cars were pulsing green rapidly (i.e. they had a very low SoC and presumably started charging not that long before), the two others were doing the reeeeeally slow pulsing indicating that they were very close to 100%. I had to literally wait another 30 minutes for one of these two to come around and move their car!
Since there's not much to do in Hawthorne, people tend to atleast hang around in or near their cars but, that's not the case for places like Folsom where folks tend to wander away. It's doubly important then that folks are more understanding, monitor the charging with the mobile apps if possible and move their cars proactively.
apvbguy
Banned
accepting your premise that is is a right and wrong time to charge to 100%, just who do you think would be the arbiter or who does and doesn't need to charge to 100%
ToddRLockwood
Active Member
I've owned my Model S for a year and driven 17K miles, but have yet to use a Supercharger. Is it still the case that the odd-numbered stalls are more powerful than the even-numbered ones? Wasn't that the case when the SC first appeared?
Kraken
Member
Well... Then we're screwed. Unfortunately, this is one of those things that we are likely going to have accept for the time being. It is part of choosing electric and using the superchargers. It isn't the negative publicity or energy direction that tesla wants to to focus on right now.
People le have the right to charge to 100%, and they aren't always going to want to move their car immediately. I'm sure some probably want the extra insurance miles, and some probably figure it's one less watt to charge at home since they are already there. How do you know the ones going to San Diego weren't going to grandma and grandpas first, then aunt Jackie's house, then a costco, then home.... Maybe it wasn't a direct trip.
I think the only thing tesla can do is have a check in kiosk (maybe the car can check itself in with some "on deck" parking spots, but I doubt that the parking lot owners will all be willing for that). Then when a car hits 90%, a message to the owner would be sent saying "your car is at 90%, and there are 2 people waiting." Then at 100% a message that says "your car is at 100%, and 2 people are waiting. Please be courteous and allow them to charge."
And I'd expect several years of tesla catching up to much more pressing issues before any solution is implemented. Right now only 3 chargers have this issue regularly, and they are all being supplemented with more local charging..
gilroy got Fremont and will have Manteca. Hawthorne is getting SJC, L.A. And Oxnard. Folsom got vacaville and is getting Roseville and at least one more.
None of the above solutions are even helpful if they forgot their phone, or it died, or they just simply turn off networking...
humans are humans and will be humans... Expect no more, and be gratefully thankful when you get better. Sorry.
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Afaik, it has never been that way. There are paired spots, but the first one in use gets a higher rate until the car can't take it anymore... The other one gets whatever is left.
the paired slots are usually in his format: 1a and 1 b... Sometimes they are laid out 1a 1b 2a 2b 3a 3b.... And sometimes they are laid out 1a 2a 3a 1b 2b 3b.... And without looking closely you'll never notice the difference and likely park in a spot that is shared with one already in use. Most people don't even know they are shared. Tesla has done nothing to properly educate people... They are likely too busy, but also anything they do to educate charging philosophy or teach courtesy will also come off as complexity.... They don't want to sell complexity.
I don't think this is true. Can you please post the math that brought you to this conclusion? Assume you have to go 240 miles, which is a common use case for me from the Ft. Myers, FL SC.
cgiGuy
Active Member
I don't know how long it takes you to charge the last 14 miles to 100%, but if it's longer than 13 minutes, then it would work out the same by lowering speed from 65 to 61 mph. At least according to EVTripPlanner for ideal conditions.
ToddRLockwood
Active Member
Thanks for the clarification. So if I read this correctly, when approaching a SC with only one stall in use, the best bet is to pick a stall that does not have the same number prefix as the one in use.
darthvdr
Member
Stopped at Hawthorne SC at 9 pm to get a quick top off to get home. 3 of the 6 stalls were down, the three working ones were taken and 3 other cars already waiting, so I was 4th in line
Two more arrived but turned around and drove off when they saw the long wait. The ones charging remained in their cars, the ones waiting all got out and we talked a little. After checking with the charging drivers it turned out two were sitting there waiting to get a 100% charge! Seriously? It takes 'forever' to get the last 5%! Two of us tried to explain how we all just need a 10 min charge to get home, but they wouldn't move. It almost got a little ugly. I really hope they fix those three other stations soon.
That is a bit rude for those charging fully to 100% while there is a line. Perhaps Tesla should post up a sign of some sort explaining the proper etiquette of charging?
Really??? I would think the proper etiquette of charging would be to wait in line and, when it is your turn, get as much as you want or need. What would you think the sign ought to say? How would one know what the charger's needs are? If my needs are for a 100% charge (as has been the case on more than one occasion) then I ought to be able to get 100%. Do you really think a sign on the property is going to change how some people are going to act?
apvbguy
Banned
Kraken
Member
It is a bit rude to be so demandy that someone who was there first not be allowed to finish his/her charge so that you can cut in line and be on your way.
Understood that if they feel they have what they need or just feel nice, that they can let you in. This would probably be more common if there was an education of how these chargers work, but right now, the vast majority of the knowledge is here on these forums... Not the common user. But again, that doesn't mean that the should feel any pressure to move, just that if they understood the process, the chances of them being generous are higher.
and again, while I don't fill to 100 or even much higher than I need to get to my destination at superchargers (unless there is no line and I have the time), I can't find any fault with those that do. Now, installing hpwc for top off with the recommendation to move to that at a certain percentage would be nice... It is a further step in the build up of these, when tesla doesn't have the resources to put energy into it yet.... Maybe in time. I also, wouldn't fault someone for. OT getting up from their dinner just to move their car... Especially at some of these locations where it is a hike to get to emrestaurants.
tesla doesn't want to make this more difficult for people, they want to make it easier... Asking people to be that active in moving their cars so promptly when they hit a certain percentage makes the process more hassle. They don't want the car to be synonymous with hassle.
Unfortunately, this might be a thing where maybe we as the customers can suggest localized solutions until tesla has the resources... Maybe we can work with businesses to put in an hpwc or two near superchargers with signs that say "please use the hpwc to top off your car once you've reached 90%"... It would still be a courtesy of so,done to choose to follow that procedure,
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Mark Petersen
Model S EU P71
I think some of this lack of understanding of charge time
Could be lowered if the car would show a graphic that illustrated charging time
|10%|20%|30%|40%|50%|60%|70%|80%|90%|100%|
|5. |7 |10. |12. |14. |16. |18. |20. |40. |60. |
And if you have entered a destination in the gps
Show the max speed you can drive to reach you destination
Could be lowered if the car would show a graphic that illustrated charging time
|10%|20%|30%|40%|50%|60%|70%|80%|90%|100%|
|5. |7 |10. |12. |14. |16. |18. |20. |40. |60. |
And if you have entered a destination in the gps
Show the max speed you can drive to reach you destination
cgiGuy
Active Member
If this chart is accurate from this post #208, it would indicate that getting from 241 rated miles (~94%) to 257 (~100%), could take as long as 45 minutes. Reducing driving speed by 4 mph would save you time overall if you compare the charts from EVTripPlanner #91 (takes 13 minutes longer to drive 240 miles at 61 vs 65, but you save ~32 minutes of charging).
So it would seem that charging to 100% not only ties up the supercharger longer, but actually ties you up longer on your trip. Lose/lose?
Of course, public math is not my strong suit, so please feel free to shoot holes in this.
So it would seem that charging to 100% not only ties up the supercharger longer, but actually ties you up longer on your trip. Lose/lose?
Of course, public math is not my strong suit, so please feel free to shoot holes in this.
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