I just encountered this situation this weekend. One stall in use, so I parked a few stalls away and plugged in. I was only getting about 70mi/hr, and I looked and sure enough, 1a 2a 3a 4a 1b 2b 3b 4b-- both of us were plugged into 3! I moved down to 1a and plugged in, and bingo-- 300 mi/hr.
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Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
Yes, very good to know that you should not share the same number (different letter) if possible.
The problem I had at Hawthorne is that I could not find any labels on the pedestals. When I arrived with four spots available, I had to guess. I guessed wrong, and then after moving, I found a spot that gave me a full charge rate.
Tesla is promising use of the superchargers (by Tesla owners) "for free, for life."
I don't think that any of us here are considering that this feature/benefit should be revoked, even if there are some who are taking (ahem) "full" advantage of it.
Some supercharging sites will always be more popular than others, and may need some additional (charger-enforced) etiquette to offer a shot of juice to all who need it.
Hopefully, Tesla can modify their superchargr sites to detect heavy use (i.e., all superchargers are in use), and limit charging to a certain amount -- at a single sitting.
If "heavy use" has been detected, a notice could pop up at the supercharger stating something like "Due to the heavy demand at this site, charging is limited to (85%) -or- (30 minutes) per sitting, whichever comes first, to accommodate as many fellow Tesla owners as possible" or some such.
There's nothing stopping the frequent user from unplugging, going to the end of the line, and plugging back in again -- after others have had a turn at the supercharger.
Everyone will still get their free charge to 100%. Just not all at once if there are others waiting.
-- Ardie
I don't think that any of us here are considering that this feature/benefit should be revoked, even if there are some who are taking (ahem) "full" advantage of it.
Some supercharging sites will always be more popular than others, and may need some additional (charger-enforced) etiquette to offer a shot of juice to all who need it.
Hopefully, Tesla can modify their superchargr sites to detect heavy use (i.e., all superchargers are in use), and limit charging to a certain amount -- at a single sitting.
If "heavy use" has been detected, a notice could pop up at the supercharger stating something like "Due to the heavy demand at this site, charging is limited to (85%) -or- (30 minutes) per sitting, whichever comes first, to accommodate as many fellow Tesla owners as possible" or some such.
There's nothing stopping the frequent user from unplugging, going to the end of the line, and plugging back in again -- after others have had a turn at the supercharger.
Everyone will still get their free charge to 100%. Just not all at once if there are others waiting.
-- Ardie
The problem with limiting the amount of charge is that those who are taking road trips may be planning their trip based on a full charge. I think it would be very bad to place that kind of limit. Having said that, it would be good to ensure that tracking of those who stay beyond their charging needs (i.e. 10-15 minutes after charge complete) occurs. That's been known to be an issue in Gilroy since very early on.
As much as one wants to, you cannot regulate courtesy. Best way to change someone else's behavior is to l lead by example, not give them a rule mandated to live by. Where would one draw the line? Unplug and let someone take a 10 minute charge, about to plug back in ..then another car comes up that needs a ten -minute charge, and the cycle could repeat. I think education would be a key factor. Have your car, and app display and send a message to your phone, respectively saying your charge is now at 85%, time remaining until full charge is "x" minutes. Then you just have to leave it up to the owner. Not much you can do about it. To have someone automatically "booted" to the back of the line if they reach 85 % seems unfair if they do need a full charge to reach their destination. Like it or not it is a limitation of EV's that hopefully dissipates with time.
Sorry I don't understand?
I'll assume you're talking about throughput here, as in number of vehicles per time unit recharged and ready to go. What do you define as "scaling well"? E.g. doubling the throughput requires incrementally less than the initial investment and resources (capital, power supply, parking space)?
So in what aspect are superchargers at a disadvantage here. If we get a good understanding here, perhaps we can discuss the merits of a hybrid approach as in the "Tesla Station" mentioned by Elon.
apvbguy
Banned
L.A. is a tough one - and unique. Saw problems coming when it was built.
After all, L.A. is about 80 miles across and 50 north/south ?
Urban SC's is a bad idea, (SC's are meant for traveling), but the vastness of this metro area made it hard to not put one there.
Yes, travelers need it - and yes sometimes 100%. People are not always going to the 'next' SC - there are other places people are headed for - and you need 100%.
I suppose they could have put SC's on either edge of the L.A. area, and someday they may, but Hawthorne was logical. Plus it displays our growing pains. We learn from it.
Bethesda is another sensitive spot. I'm guessing it will disappear as soon as SC's are built on either side of the DC area (it is temporary equipment).
Locals taking advantage (yeah that will always be a problem) - but they are entitled - they paid for it. And they will learn that charging at home is not that expensive. But, newbies will still always do it until they learn.
(My first day, I went to a level 2 charger 2 blocks from my house - the store said they would leave it on all night while I charged. After sitting 20 minutes, I realized it wasn't worth the effort)
Expecting someone to move cuz you want a quick 10 min charge? No - realize that you are asking them to extend their wait time. (This is not a courtesy - this is a burden)
If you are planning a trip - you have to account for anomalies (spaces full, shared spaces not giving full amperage, units not working, meteors). Be grateful when everything falls in place - don't be upset when things aren't perfect.
You drive across Montana in an ICE - pushing the gas tank to its limit - pull into a one gas station town on fumes. Only to find out it's closed - next gas 50 miles. The chance you take.
SC's not available when you pull up - surprise! Just be grateful that it means more are adopting the EV and new problems will give us an idea what to work on.
After all, L.A. is about 80 miles across and 50 north/south ?
Urban SC's is a bad idea, (SC's are meant for traveling), but the vastness of this metro area made it hard to not put one there.
Yes, travelers need it - and yes sometimes 100%. People are not always going to the 'next' SC - there are other places people are headed for - and you need 100%.
I suppose they could have put SC's on either edge of the L.A. area, and someday they may, but Hawthorne was logical. Plus it displays our growing pains. We learn from it.
Bethesda is another sensitive spot. I'm guessing it will disappear as soon as SC's are built on either side of the DC area (it is temporary equipment).
Locals taking advantage (yeah that will always be a problem) - but they are entitled - they paid for it. And they will learn that charging at home is not that expensive. But, newbies will still always do it until they learn.
(My first day, I went to a level 2 charger 2 blocks from my house - the store said they would leave it on all night while I charged. After sitting 20 minutes, I realized it wasn't worth the effort)
Expecting someone to move cuz you want a quick 10 min charge? No - realize that you are asking them to extend their wait time. (This is not a courtesy - this is a burden)
If you are planning a trip - you have to account for anomalies (spaces full, shared spaces not giving full amperage, units not working, meteors). Be grateful when everything falls in place - don't be upset when things aren't perfect.
You drive across Montana in an ICE - pushing the gas tank to its limit - pull into a one gas station town on fumes. Only to find out it's closed - next gas 50 miles. The chance you take.
SC's not available when you pull up - surprise! Just be grateful that it means more are adopting the EV and new problems will give us an idea what to work on.
In terms of SuperCharging, the footprint of the sites (Real Estate) and the time needed to 'charge up' does not scale to the amount of vehicles Tesla wants to build/sell. Among those scaling issues are social unrest factors (i.e. the topic of this thread). Early 'passionate' adopters will suffer and wait with a smile. The majority of the Americans are not so patient.
- - - Updated - - -
Conceded. I don't want to hijack this into a swapping vs charging thread. Just wanted to make the point that I think swapping is ultimately the better long term solution vs. trying to impose social charging etiquette.
Kraken
Member
You earned the first rep point I have ever given out (not that there hasn't been other great comments.... This one was just so spot on.). That and you described precisely a Montana scenario I remember as a kid. The town policeman opened up the gas station in the middle of the night for my dad.
Brass Guy
Active Member
It occurred to me while, reading this thread, some who are less educated regarding the charge taper of the SC would benefit from one simple update. If Tesla changes the displayed charge rate from an average mph to instantaneous, it will show that after 90% they are charging at a rate of about 60 mph (interpreted from the chart referenced above). Not too long after it will slow to below 30 mph. The average it shows now decreases much too slowly.
I suggest that for some people, just observing that charge rate drop would be incentive enough to call it enough. Obviously not in all cases, but I think this could make a difference for "locals" charging.
I suggest that for some people, just observing that charge rate drop would be incentive enough to call it enough. Obviously not in all cases, but I think this could make a difference for "locals" charging.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
I think Tesla should calculate and display a best effort estimate of time remaining like it can with AC charging. I know stall splitting makes this a bit erratic but, the time remaining would get through to people more quickly.
Not sure if you've noticed this, but even after the charging rate slows down, the "miles per hour" number on the display can still remain quite high. This probably leads some owners to think they'll continue to get that number if they stay plugged in...
This would be a good idea. Something big on the 17" screen saying
"Estimate charge time to 80% 30 min
80-90% 15 min
90-100% 20 min"
or something like that. People could then honestly see if they wanted to wait around that extra time. Of course that doesn't help the people who know exactly what they are doing and are simply using the Supercharger to full because they can, not because they need it for travel.
Great idea! Frankly I had no idea that the miles per hour charging display was a session average before reading this thread. I had thought it was instantaneous.
Everything else on that display is instantaneous. Why even put an average in there?
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
I agree it is very inconsistent to have the MPH charge rate be the only item that is a session average...
For those that like to mental math, here is a good trick to calculate instantaneous MPH charge rate.
- For an 85, the battery Voltage is close to 400 Volts near the end of the taper.
- DC Power into the battery is Volts * Amps.
- About 300 Wh DC into tha battery are needed for each rated mile.
- Rated MPH Charge Rate = Amps * 400 Volts / 300 Wh/mi or
- Rated MPH = Amps * 4/3
So in an 85, all you need to do to calculate the approximate rated MPH charge rate is take a third of the current Amps and add it to Amps (A*4/3). For example if the current is 45 Amps, the charge rate is 60 MPH, if the current is 24 Amps, the charge rate is 32 MPH, etc.
You have to do something while waiting for the taper to finish, so why not do some mental math! :wink:
Brass Guy
Active Member
You can change the charge display from "distance" to "energy" in settings. I haven't used it, but I think the energy reading is an instantaneous kW reading which makes more sense. That would make a mph charge calculation easier and more accurate.
This doesn't help the issue that nearly everyone's display still says "200 mph"* when they're really getting 10.
* possible exaggeration, not much SC experience.
This doesn't help the issue that nearly everyone's display still says "200 mph"* when they're really getting 10.
* possible exaggeration, not much SC experience.
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