Interesting that PG&E is actually working with Chevrolet on V2G (or V2H)

[holeydonut]

I have no clue which forum this goes in; I guess since F150 Lightning talk is in this sub, then some Silverado EV talk can go here too hah.

GM is working with PG&E to turn electric vehicles into a virtual power grid in California

EVs can supply power to a house or the electrical grid.

www.theverge.com

Not much details, but it seems PG&E (on paper) wants to actually work with GM to figure out a way to get V2G a reality in the coming years. Although I cannot imagine a scenario where a GM truck works with a Tesla Powerwall Gateway eco system...

I wonder, if one were to slap the V2G connector upstream of the Tesla Gateway (sorry smart-meter-switch folks), if someone could have their Chevy Truck on the non-backup side to do some TOU arbitrage when the utility was operational... and of course Tesla Powerwalls to deal with the actual home backup if the PoCo goes offline.

Seems unnecessary to ever need a EV to charge the Powerwalls if the Powerwalls are already paired with solar.

 

[gpez]

This is all I really want. The Powerwall is nice and all, may even still want them in my next house. Having a 60kwh+ or two battery sitting in a garage most of the day is such a waste. Bonus points for a PHEV that can double as an emergency generator during grid outages.

This is the future. Make it happen, Chevrolet (and Ford and Tesla and everyone else).

 

[Tell It Right]

This is all I really want. The Powerwall is nice and all, may even still want them in my next house. Having a 60kwh+ or two battery sitting in a garage most of the day is such a waste. Bonus points for a PHEV that can double as an emergency generator during grid outages.

This is the future. Make it happen, Chevrolet (and Ford and Tesla and everyone else).

For what it's worth, though I don't have a Powerwall (expense is a pain) I do have a 10kw solar system with 30 kWh battery backup (six lifepo4 Gyll batteries 5 kWh each in parallel). I'm looking at getting an EV, have my eye on the F150 Lightning, and the battery backup thing for the house is not attractive to me (Ford already says it'll be in the Lightning with ER battery and the 80 amp charger).

But that may be because my power is dependable (Sweet Home Alabama!) and the few times the power goes out my inverter doesn't automatically shut off (I have a "no report' inverter which doesn't put power onto the grid). This is because in Alabama for years we've had a large monthly "solar fee" that pretty much is the new thing solar users in California are complaining about. Thus, a year ago when I paid for and designed my solar system, the buyback thing wasn't on my radar, not part of my math on when it'd all pay for itself, and I avoid the monthly solar fee by not putting anything back onto the grid (putting power onto the grid would automatically sign me up for the solar buyback program). It's also why I have more home solar battery storage than most people (using the grid as my "storage" would be cost prohibitive).

Part of my math on an EV being cost effective is it holding a charge for more than a few days. That means not depending on the EV as a battery backup. My inverter has a feature that'll power a separate electrical panel only in the event that my home batteries are charged to a configured level (say 80% SOC). If I get an EV I'll utilize this feature and have two 240V charging outlets: one with constant power and one powered intermittently when the home batteries are charged enough to power the house through the night without pulling from the grid (i.e. 80% SOC). Say I come home with my EV and I have 70% "left in the tank" and nothing but the usual 40 to 50 miles I drive in a day for the next few days. I'll plug it into the intermittent outlet knowing that even if it's getting charge at that point, it won't last all night and will shut off whenever the home battery SOC drops below 80%. Likewise if it's still plugged in the next day and if the sun brings the SOC back up to 80% (it'll automatically start charging again), say if I work from home that day or I'm off that day. Also, if I come home with a low "tank" I'll charge the EV with the constant powered outlet like most people charge their EV.

So my EV is cheaper to run if I don't count on it as battery backup -- I want it to have enough charge to drive a few days in case I go a few days without sunshine.

 

[jboy210]

This is all I really want. The Powerwall is nice and all, may even still want them in my next house. Having a 60kwh+ or two battery sitting in a garage most of the day is such a waste. Bonus points for a PHEV that can double as an emergency generator during grid outages.

This is the future. Make it happen, Chevrolet (and Ford and Tesla and everyone else).

This makes more and more sense as we start shifting to EVs. I wonder how soon Tesla will move to V2H support. I bet they could do it sooner than GM if they wanted to. And it might let them push more profitable long range (big battery) model sales.

 

[sunwarriors]

One question that I have is will using a vehicle as a home battery to constantly discharge to beat ToU make the car/truck battery experience degradation faster (I would think it has to). If powerwalls are setup for 10 year warranty, so many charge/discharge cycles in addition to DCFC were done to said EV truck, would those manufacturers replace the battery sight unseen and still have the same warranty?

I think Ford said that's still undecided at this time. I assume they maybe able to pull data of battery drain and activity of the car (not moving, constantly battery cycles from 4pm - 9pm, etc...).

V2H is too new so far and it'll be interesting to see the F150 EV in action soon.

 

[miimura]

It is likely that the relatively low discharge rate of home usage compared to actually driving the vehicle will contribute relatively little degradation to the battery pack.

 

[holeydonut]

It is likely that the relatively low discharge rate of home usage compared to actually driving the vehicle will contribute relatively little degradation to the battery pack.

So the best scenario is to charge Chevrolet Silverado V2G EV with off peak suds. Then tell truck to export 10kW from 4pm to 9pm.

= truck pays for itself so you won’t care about battery degradation?

 

[miimura]

So the best scenario is to charge Chevrolet Silverado V2G EV with off peak suds. Then tell truck to export 10kW from 4pm to 9pm.

= truck pays for itself so you won’t care about battery degradation?

I was assuming actual home usage, not blind discharge and export. If you were doing demand response, 20kW is much closer to average road cruising than normal home usage of 2kW-5kW. The smaller home usage impact on the battery might not be statistically discernable in a population study of degradation versus miles, even though the odometer is not advancing while powering the home.

 

[jboy210]

I would be great to use the V2G in a VPP setup and get paid $1 or so for each kWh sent back

 

[holeydonut]

I would be great to use the V2G in a VPP setup and get paid $1 or so for each kWh sent back

It would be even greater if someone had Solar + Paired Solar under NEM 2.0 under EV2A, but then added a V2G EV that could export electricity from 4 to 9pm.

Especially since a certain PoCo disallowed some homeowners to size up their solar to cover future electric demand.

Something something something fair share.

 

[holeydonut]

Looks like Ford is also working with PG&E to explore this.

Although ford says their system is different because it can grid export and grid charge? Like what?

Ford and PG&E partner on electric F-150 powering homes, grid

Ford will collaborate with Pacific Gas and Electric Co. on the capabilities of the electric F-150 Lightning to power homes and return energy to the power grid.

www.cnbc.com

 

[cali8484]

One question that I have is will using a vehicle as a home battery to constantly discharge to beat ToU make the car/truck battery experience degradation faster (I would think it has to). If powerwalls are setup for 10 year warranty, so many charge/discharge cycles in addition to DCFC were done to said EV truck, would those manufacturers replace the battery sight unseen and still have the same warranty?

It's not a real issue for V2H (i.e. not V2G) emergency/backup power usage. The whole "beat the TOU" thing seems like a contrivance to help justify the high cost of a dedicated home battery system. In general, it's not so relevant for an EV as it's mainly cost justified based on its value as a transportation vehicle.

 

[holeydonut]

It's not a real issue for V2H (i.e. not V2G) emergency/backup power usage. The whole "beat the TOU" thing seems like a contrivance to help justify the high cost of a dedicated home battery system. In general, it's not so relevant for an EV as it's mainly cost justified based on its value as a transportation vehicle.

Beat the TOU thing is one of the things people should care about most regarding PG&E.

PG&E can no longer satisfy peak demand without killing people or wasting billions of dollars in infrastructure improvements (ones that require double-digit CAGR growth in billed rates since PG&E must generate their 10% ROE on all incremental expenses).

Since PG&E has spent all that money buying policymakers, the only recourse lowly homeowners have are... beat the TOU thing, add a monstrous amount of solar under NEM 2.0, or try to grid-defect entirely.

 

[MJ_CA_2019]

I have no clue which forum this goes in; I guess since F150 Lightning talk is in this sub, then some Silverado EV talk can go here too hah.

GM is working with PG&E to turn electric vehicles into a virtual power grid in California

EVs can supply power to a house or the electrical grid.

www.theverge.com

Not much details, but it seems PG&E (on paper) wants to actually work with GM to figure out a way to get V2G a reality in the coming years. Although I cannot imagine a scenario where a GM truck works with a Tesla Powerwall Gateway eco system...

I wonder, if one were to slap the V2G connector upstream of the Tesla Gateway (sorry smart-meter-switch folks), if someone could have their Chevy Truck on the non-backup side to do some TOU arbitrage when the utility was operational... and of course Tesla Powerwalls to deal with the actual home backup if the PoCo goes offline.

Seems unnecessary to ever need a EV to charge the Powerwalls if the Powerwalls are already paired with solar.

From the article:
"The average California home uses around 20 kilowatt-hours of power a day, while a Chevy Bolt has a battery with 60kWh capacity, Spina said. That translates into at least two or three days worth of electricity for a single home, he said."

In 2021 my home averaged 45 kWh per day... but this is not the whole story... in July 2021 I averaged 78 kWh per day; in Oct 2021 28 kWh.
WHEN the power outage takes place is pretty important... is that going to happen more likely in July or Oct??

 

[sunwarriors]

Not sure where to put this, but Enphase issued a press release today about V2G/V2H tech coming. I hope existing owners can upgrade later/soon. Will need to see what folks have to buy since it sounds like the box has IQ8s in it so it's not just the Smart Switch which currently supports islanding.

Enphase Energy Demonstrates Bidirectional Electric Vehicle Charger Technology

FREMONT, Calif., Feb. 02, 2023 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Enphase Energy, Inc. (NASDAQ: ENPH), a global energy technology company and the world's leading supplier of microinverter-based solar and battery systems, announced today a successful demonstration of its bidirectional EV charger enabling...

finance.yahoo.com

Video:

Enphase Bidirectional EV Charger | Enphase

enphase.com

 

[holeydonut]

Not sure where to put this, but Enphase issued a press release today about V2G/V2H tech coming. I hope existing owners can upgrade later/soon. Will need to see what folks have to buy since it sounds like the box has IQ8s in it so it's not just the Smart Switch which currently supports islanding.

Enphase Energy Demonstrates Bidirectional Electric Vehicle Charger Technology

FREMONT, Calif., Feb. 02, 2023 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Enphase Energy, Inc. (NASDAQ: ENPH), a global energy technology company and the world's leading supplier of microinverter-based solar and battery systems, announced today a successful demonstration of its bidirectional EV charger enabling...

finance.yahoo.com

Video:

Enphase Bidirectional EV Charger | Enphase

enphase.com

Dang, time for @h2ofun to strip out his tiny/lame Tesla Powerwall 2 system (7 Powerwalls...) and put in Enphase Encharge + IQ8+

 

[h2ofun]

Dang, time for @h2ofun to strip out his tiny/lame Tesla Powerwall 2 system (7 Powerwalls...) and put in Enphase Encharge + IQ8+

And I thought I was at the leading edge.

 

[holeydonut]

And I thought I was at the leading edge.

Re-doing your ESS will give you an opportunity to get 7x the same type of blade disconnect.

 

[jhn_]

This makes more and more sense as we start shifting to EVs. I wonder how soon Tesla will move to V2H support. I bet they could do it sooner than GM if they wanted to. And it might let them push more profitable long range (big battery) model sales.

I think it’s a demand lever Tesla will only pull once they feel they are loosing sales (or about to loose sales) because of this feature. Which may be more than a year or two away. Plenty of other levers for them to pull first like price reductions to bring pain to potential EV competitors.

And you are right, I’m sure they could introduce a Gateway 3 in weeks with this functionality if they felt like it. Regulatory approval aside.