Interesting (to me) Exercise

[Vitold]

Wait, isn't Tesla the one not building "Beta prototypes" for it's new ground up car the Model 3?
GM's got a lot to be ashamed of, but their production testing program probably not one of them.
Has anyone seen even one Model 3 undergoing any real testing?

Most testing, including crash testing, takes place inside a computer simulation these days. Also keep in mind that Tesla is not skipping production validation.

 

[McRat]

Most testing, including crash testing, takes place inside a computer simulation these days. Also keep in mind that Tesla is not skipping production validation.

Simulations are only the start. Physical testing includes climate testing chambers, abusive condition closed test tracks, motor stands that are like 3D articulated flight simulators, etc.

It funny that some folk do not think Chevrolet tests their vehicles. When they released the last Silverado, they did 12,500,000 miles of testing before selling one truck. While other models seldom see that level, the miles logged in the CTF cars is always in the 100,000's or millions.

http://jalopnik.com/silverados-benefit-from-12-5-million-miles-of-durabilit-1451425940

 

[jbcarioca]

My guess is that most people do not know that vehicles are shipped to extremely cold places:
Lapland Proving Ground
extremely hot places:
Bugatti Chiron Survives Extreme Hot Weather Testing In Death Valley
...and so on.
Everyone sends their vehicles for lots of noise, vibration and harshness tests including real and simulated Michigan highways and the like,
In fact it is simplest to say that all manufacturers abuse their vehicles in every way they can.
That is not to mean that they end out with zero defects, but they're all, every one, much better than they were a couple of decades ago.[/QUOTE]

 

[cheekedave]

This I gotta hear. If you like, you can interpret that as you being full of 'it'.

Full of what? This is truth.

 

[Vitold]

My guess is that most people do not know that vehicles are shipped to extremely cold places:
Lapland Proving Ground
extremely hot places:
Bugatti Chiron Survives Extreme Hot Weather Testing In Death Valley
...and so on.
Everyone sends their vehicles for lots of noise, vibration and harshness tests including real and simulated Michigan highways and the like,
In fact it is simplest to say that all manufacturers abuse their vehicles in every way they can.
That is not to mean that they end out with zero defects, but they're all, every one, much better than they were a couple of decades ago.

[/QUOTE]

Some people do not realise that this is done mostly for marketing purposes.

The main point being that because of Tesla already producing S and X and because individual components have already been validated Tesla can skip beta vehicles and move to production validation and qc.

 

[jbcarioca]

Some people do not realise that this done mostly for marketing purposes.[/QUOTE]
Some people may never have been on such trips, with almost no press around nor many quotes later. Maybe that is why few publicize their exploits in severe conditions, they do it for PR.

 

[nebster]

I could only imagine the craziness they will try to come up with in the future with the Bolt in terms of trying to charge for crazy maintenance and ruin people's experience and go somewhere else.

FYI - Chevy's recommended maintenance schedule is pretty awesome for the first 150k miles

Chevrolet Bolt Requires Almost No Maintenance For First 150,000 Miles

Basically a couple of brake fluid flushes (diy a few bucks assuming they don't have a fancy computer that requires dealers to program/reset), cabin air filters ($10 each), and coolant at 150k. Savvy Bolt buyers can easily point to the owners manual should their dealer try and upsell services.

The Bolt is not selling too well here in California - some of the larger dealers have 100+ Bolt on inventory, and have advertised $3,000 off MSRP right off the bat. If you negotiate at month end, I wouldn't be surprised if you receive a greater discount.

Compared to luxury brands, the cost of the Bolt driver convenience packages is very low. $500 will get you heated seats, heated and leather steering, and autodim. Another $500 will get you blind spot monitoring, rear cross traffic, and parking sensors. Too bad they also charge $800 for l3 fast charging.

Where the Bolt falls short against the Model 3 is the lack of autopilot. GM is partnered with Lyft to deliver autonomous Bolts, but I haven't heard anything regarding having a self driving Bolt for regular buyers. Another shortcoming is the lack of supercharging, although this one is somewhat debatable. The CCS fast charging is also expected to be max of 80kw, compared to Teslas hitting 125/135kw. With the incoming increase of Model 3s, it is anyone's guess as to whether Tesla will be able to keep up with supercharging demand, especially in California along the main long distance travel corridors (I'm looking at you Barstow, Harris, and Fort Tejon)

It's hard NOT to compare the Bolt to the Model 3 because of the similar price and range. However, I do believe that the Bolt has its advantages (and disadvantages) that ultimately targets a slightly different buyer compared to the Model 3. Mainly, the Bolt is more utilitarian with its seating position and rear hatch allowing greater space for storage. Plus, the Bolt has been shown to be great for young families - there have been reports that people are able to fit two rear facing infant car seats PLUS a front facing toddler car seat in the backseat.

 

[McRat]

Full of what? This is truth.

There is nothing expensive that is not covered by warranty until a spark plug change at nearly 100,000 miles. We have 3 Volts for the family since 2013. 1 oil change for 3 cars, and I put better tires on them, they were not worn out. Still not $1200 for 3 cars in 4 years if you count that I sold the nearly new tires and a set of rims.

So you either did not read your warranty, did not read your maintenance guide (it's tiny), or ?. I dunno.

The brakes don't wear, the tires are good for years, it's hard to need an oil change (cheap) in the first year. It says you should replace the oil every 2 years regardless of miles.

 

[tashtibet]

for Tesla since the owner configures one's own car-you'll love every part of it-that's purely missing when you buy from the dealers.

 

[BrokerDon]

I will probably never buy another GM car based on the last 3 top-of-the-line GM cars I bought:

• 1999 Corvette convertible: GM bought back under "Lemon Law" since it kept running out of fuel (dual fuel tanks with defective transfer pumps & controller). Chevrolet dealers acknowledged GM had new part number of non-defective fuel tank transfer parts... but GM wouldn't send them these parts since they had a backlog of Corvette orders and diverted the parts to new cars instead. OUCH

• 2002 Corvette convertible: The insurance company body shop at the 50 year old local Chevy dealer insisted they could "repair" my severely T-bone accident Corvette to factory specs... causing my insurance company to refuse to total it. When we got it back a month later after they performed a GM approved frame rail replacement it would twist and turn all over the place when you hit a bump in a curve. Upon laser inspection at another body shop my Corvette was severely out of iCar spec... and GMAC Leasing refused to make them do anything about it. Lucky it was leased so I turned it back at the end of my lease to a Chevy dealer who acknowledge the damage and said they'd just send it to the auto auction. So sorry for the next owner.

• 2006 Corvette Z06 (most expensive car vehicle sold by GM in 2006): At under 10,000 miles the "Active Handling System" failed repeatedly and after SEVEN multi-day stays at to TWO different Chevy dealers they were unable to fix it for more than a few minutes or a couple of days. I filed another Lemon Law claim but Chevy refused to settle since I'd already received a Lemon Law settlement previously... and the "new" post bankruptcy GM had no legal responsibility for the "old" GM's warranties. YIKES. They finally agreed to give me a 7-year / 72,000 mile GM Protection Plan Warranty which thankfully I did. Fortunately I'd met the Chief Corvette Engineer, Tadge Juechter, at a Corvette event and got him to personally intervene to FINALLY provide a permanent fix to this ongoing serious safety issue. Without Tadge I would have been SOL.

Subsequently around 30,000 miles I got NASTY valve clatter at 1,500 to 2,000 rpm turned out to be a known / documented issue / GM Technical Service Bulletin issue) with the LS-7 motors (vendor mis-drilled the valve guides). TWO local Chevrolet dealers and the Chevy Regional Service Manager refused to fix it under warranty claiming it wasn't covered until something actually BROKE (dropping a valve into the $12,000 motor. HUH?). Complicating the problem was GM had sold their GM Protection Plans to a 3rd party warranty company who clearly didn't want to pay... and GM had zero leverage. Fortunately I found a Chevy dealer 5 hours away through the Corvette Forum who replaced these defective LS-7 heads all the time... under my GMPP warranty. This happened so often this dealer kept a couple sets of these expensive heads and titanium / sodium filled valves in stock... and Corvette Z06 owners all over California and the adjoining states were driving their Corvettes hundreds of miles to get this manufacturing defect fixed to prevent their $12,000 motors imploding.

So even IF the Chevy Bolt was competitive feature-wise with the Tesla Model 3 (which it doesn't appear to be), I wouldn't buy one based on my multiple HORRIBLE experiences with GM / Chevrolet getting them to stand behind their vehicles. Sadly, it doesn't sound like GM has changed their customer service based on the 253 page Corvette Z06 Forums #1 "sticky" post being the new C7 Corvette Z06 motors "overheating" MEGA MERGE: ZO6 overheating issues ***MEGA Merge*** - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

EXAMPLE: "Hey guys, new to the site... I need help!! Bought my beautiful 2015 Z06 brand new in April of 2015, all I have had is trouble, overheats any time I drive it over 80MPH, took it to the dealer 8 times for overheating issues, dealer replaced water pump 3 times, overheated on me again on a road trip to TN, under normal driving conditions, stopped at gas station and took 1.5 gallons of antifreeze, car has now been at the dealer for 12 days only to be told "Sorry cannot duplicate within normal road laws (55MPH)". So basically I bought a $113k Chevy Cruze. Filed a complaint with GM and the representative told me they would compensate me for 3 days car rental and would not be able to do anything about the overheating issue. The car has just over 11k and it already feels like it does not have the power it had when it was new. I ma really disappointed, cause on one side, I love the car but on the other, cannot drive it over 55 for fear of overheating, what should I do?"

I'm glad Tesla has competition, but GM would need to completely do a 180 on their service to KEEP customers.

 

[182RG]

Within the first 1 year of ownership I was pressured into doing almost $1,200 of "maintenance" which did not need to be done and was against what even Chevy recommended in the manual.

Pressured into and saying yes, or being pressured and refusing. If you agreed, you always had the option of saying no. It's a simple, 1 syllable word.

I've had dealers of every brand "recommend" oil changes 2-3 times more frequently than book, induction cleaning, oil treatment, etc, etc. Its easy to say no. Even Tesla's prepaid maint is a bit "sketchy" with regards to cost vs. value.

Dealers are franchises. Manufacturers look the other way in these cases.

 

[McRat]

I will probably never buy another GM car based on the last 3 top-of-the-line GM cars I bought:

...

Our 2000 SS Y2Y Camaro, 2002 Z06, 2009 CTS-V, 2010 ZR1 all have had good results on the road and track. Lots of track.

I've got to say, when I hear of somebody who constant problems with everything they own, I wonder. Because we are very hard on our vehicles.