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Introduction

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by GJMcManus, Jul 30, 2013.

  1. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    My name is Greg, I currently do not own a Tesla.

    You might be asking why am I on a Tesla owners forum..

    A little history..

    I am an avid Ford Raptor owner on another forum when an opportunity to enter the 2013 Bullrun Rally with my Raptor. Of course I jumped at the chance to take part of the coast to coast event..
    uploadfromtaptalk1375203852421.jpg
    uploadfromtaptalk1375203908819.jpg

    Then I met Jeb from Team wheelzup and his GTR.
    uploadfromtaptalk1375203954452.jpg

    After the Bullrun he sold the GTR and bought a Tesla S.. After competing in several rallies he wanted to do one last coast to coast run.

    Knowing that I am a crazy idea guy and master electrician we hatched a plan to take his Tesla S coast to coast. Starting researching the forums and getting most of my questions answered.. Resolving a lot of the issues with breaking the 84.5 hour EV record.

    We started to finalize the plan and contact vendors.. I started to run into issues, and not finding the answers i went ahead and joined this forum..
     
  2. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    Welcome, nice truck and best of luck on the record attempt!

    NOTE: Once the Superchargers light up from coast to coast that record will most likely be obliterated ;)

    I highly suspect someone on this forum will be at each of those chargers within minutes of them opening...cough cough Brianman
     
  3. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    That has been our stumbling block... To get the DC quick charging you have to use Tesla superchargers and charging protocols.. As most owners are aware of the whole CHAdeMO/SAEJ1772 grudge match. Finding mobile DC generator/charger was the easy part. Getting it to work with a Tesla is another thing..

    That is why i joined, because I need to pick the brains of this forum. Hopefully be able answer some of our questions, and we will be able to beat that BEV motorcycle...
     
  4. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    Right now we have Jeb and Mike Baumann in the Tesla S.. I will be driving one of the two Ford Raptors acting as chase/support vehicles.

    We plan on either equipping both Raptors with DC quick chargers or having one dedicated support and one chase.. Depending on cost, charging equipment, and the other Raptor..
     
  5. jebzter

    jebzter Member

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    Virginia is for Lovers
    Need Tesla experts to help us out please!
     
  6. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

    Joined:
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    You have a few options depending on how much $$$ you want to spend.

    Charging using Chademo will require waiting for a Tesla supplied adapter(most likely a 6 month or more wait), or having one custom made(won't be cheap). I'm sure Phil@ Evseupgrade would make you one if you went this route.

    Having a frankenplug(SAEJ1772) adapter made(much cheaper), and using a portable SAEJ1772 charger(although I'm not sure if these are available to rent from anyone since no car uses them yet).

    Talk tesla into renting a portable supercharger(would need to scout and temporarily wire into 3 phase sources).

    Either way, these are your only options for mobile DC charging right now.
     
  7. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    We are looking at using Polar DC Marine
    8340P-40422
    Mobile Rapid Charging Generator
    26 kW at 2600 RPM
    250-420 Vdc

    Polar’s DC Rapid Chargers are set up to communicate with CHAdeMo and can be programmed to operate with other battery / automotive systems.

    The issue is they do not have the charging protocols for the Tesla. The manufacturer said the idea solution is use Teslas supercharger plug with their protocol should achieve proper L3 charging.
     
  8. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    If 26kw is all you will be able to get out of that DC setup, then it definately isn't worth it. A model S(equipped with dual chargers) can charge at 20kw using AC power.

    At minimum, you would need to pull 50kw to justify the expense of DC charging worth it.
     
  9. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    #9 richkae, Jul 30, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
    Assuming you are going to drive 2337 miles from Jacksonville, Florida to San Diego, California:
    If you drive 50 mph the entire way it will take 46.74 hours of driving.
    Lets say that you consume 280 wh/mile ( I took a guess at consumption at constant 50mph ) for a total of 654 kWh ( However 654 - 85 is only 569 )
    If you can regain charge at 18kW that will take 31.6 hours of charging to regain 569kWh.
    31.6 hours + 46.74 hours = 78.34 hours
    If you can make 250 volts AC at 80 amps that should give you an honest 20kW which would yield 18kW at 90% efficiency ( I'm talking about the efficiency of the chargers inside the Model S, its probably actually a lot better than 90% ).

    If you can do better than 280 wh/mile it will be easy.
    You could drop the DC charging idea altogether and find yourself 20kW worth of inverter.

    If Tesla finishes the superchargers near Houston and Austin before you go on the trip you could shave a few hours off the trip.
    Likewise with the superchargers between San Diego and Phoenix.
    All of those are listed as "summer 2013" or "fall 2013" on the Tesla supercharger map.
     
  10. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    The only reason considering DC charging from a DC generator is higher efficiency due to no conversion.. Lighter than AC generator and inverter of equal size.. The polar units can be synched..

    "Chrysler uses 2 of these units synched in the back of a 3/4 ton pickup for their around the country testing of their electric car."

    I am open to any and all ideas.. Hell even pulling a 3 phase 480volt AC generator if we have to...
     
  11. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Yeah, I think the advantage of going AC is that you can put it together with all off the shelf parts.
    I'd want to make sure you got as close to 250 volts as possible.
     
  12. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    I truly appreciate your help and advice...

    Mobile Tesla supercharger would be out of the question then?
     
  13. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I just think it would be easier to go with the AC. You could ask Tesla to sell you a supercharger and mobilify-it. If I had a large budget that's what I would do.
     
  14. daxz

    daxz Member

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    Location:
    Denver, CO
    You ideal speed is going to be governed by your charging rate.
    There are a few pages discussing optimal velocity based on charging rates around.

    Need Actual Roadster Charge times for Optimum Road Trip Calculations
    Assuming you take 5 minutes to stop and hookup and unhook and you charge to 80% with 18kW, you should be able to go 62mph - @2337 miles would take 73.6h with 31.9hrs charging with 9 stops.


    Ideally you want to cut out any wind resistance:
    Aero wheels - Page 39
    Travel West to East coast may also give you a tail wind advantage.
    Draft - (pull a trailer optimized to draft behind)

    Depending on the route you may be able to use a existing SuperChargers (IL, CA) to your advantage too.

    <danger>
    If you really want to PUSH it, then you could take your Raptor and build a good push bar and push the Tesla for 1.2 hrs at max regen @ 60kW to refill the battery to 80%. Charging on the road - no stopping :scared: and when charging at 60kW you can travel up to 90 mph with about 18 pushes. Or if you're not allowed to push you could setup a roller system driven off the Raptor.
    </danger>
     
  15. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    Love the way you think... Being that offroad is my natural habitat.. I know what high speed nerfing is..

    I do not know how Jebzster would feel about me nerfing his Tesla! Lol

    I guess I can hook up a tow bridle and drag the Tesla to recharge it..
     
  16. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    Just thinking out loud...

    Two battery packs.. One charging on the truck and one in Tesla... Towing a trailer to help with swapping..

    Are there quick disconnects for cooling battery packs?
     
  17. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    Okay late night brainstorming....

    Going back to 26kw DC generator/charger idea.. What if the generator is run continuously to charge a battery (buffer bank).. This could take advantage of 3-4 hours of downtime in between Tesla recharging.. If you could control and combine the output of the dc generator and buffer bank you could hypothetically double the output of the generator/charger..
     
  18. eMileage

    eMileage Member

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    ^^^ This is what I was thinking. Of course, you would have to figure out how to do rapid mobile swaps (without robots and automated nut drivers). You would also need to be able to cool the pack while charging. Have you considered taking two cars, one Model S to drive and one on a trailer -- which would allow it to be charging while on the move. The car already has all of the necessary connections, cooling, on-board chargers, etc. Swap batteries at each stop and continue driving and charging on the move.

    You might also consider something like VIA Motors Exportable Power Option. I know they have had these in some fleets (Verizon comes to mind... and some power utility companies). And they have had a 50KW utility grade power output module (see page 8) in development. Maybe you could convince them to be a sponsor of your trek, which might give them the opportunity to showcase their technology while providing your needed mobile power.
    And as a Raptor owner, I thought you might like the look of their 800hp Monster XTrux! :wink:

    1000216_584938318223432_686019712_n.jpg
     
  19. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    If you want to go with battery swapping, here is my proposal:

    3 cars, one car drives, the other 2 are just battery tenders that ride on trucks.
    When the driving car runs low, one of the tenders is ahead of it and has already unloaded its full battery. You remove the battery from the driving car and attach the full battery.
    The driving car drives off. The battery is attached to the empty tender car and it is put back on the flatbed and charges as it drives.
    The other tender car on its flatbed has gone by - not stopping.

    This way you can drive maximum speed ( the speed limit ~60 - ~70mph ) and if that speed uses 25 kW then you only need to charge at a little more than 12.5kW to keep up ( the more is to make up for the time lost to swapping and loading/unloading from trucks ). No chargers are needed, just two inverters - one for each tender.

    You would need two scissor lifts to move the battery up and down the few inches it takes to get it in and out. I would make ramps and rails that get the car a couple feet off the ground so that you can get under it and do all the bolts. I would make the rails 2x the length of the car. I would drive the car up onto the ramp, then drop the empty battery out - then roll the car forward by hand until it is over the new battery, then lift the new battery up.

    With this setup, you smash the record. Your time penalty to an ICE car is determined entirely by how long it takes you to do the swaps.
     
  20. GJMcManus

    GJMcManus Member

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    Maybe cost prohibited having 3 teslas (unless Tesla gives us some loaners... hint..hint)..

    Looking at some of Tesla photos..
    uploadfromtaptalk1375329775244.jpg

    It looks like we could charge and cool the battery outside the vehicle.. Which would eliminate the cost of three Teslas.. So if we could work out the charging and cooling we could use 3 battery packs and rotate them to achieve the same results..

    Have them housed in the belly of the trailer this way we roll the Tesla to empty bay, lower depleted battery. Roll the Tesla to full battery location and raise the charged battery..

    The issues I see is coolant loss while swapping batteries back and forth.. Need to be able to replenish coolant loss..

    Also, would swapping batteries effect settings, computers, or anything like that? Or does the 12volt battery keep all settings and keeping the computers from freaking out?

    Sorry for all the questions.. Want to make sure I don't let the magic smoke out of the Tesla.. Even though it runs on batteries it is not a toy car..
     

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