Investor Discussion Threads for 2015

[Krugerrand]

^^As pointed out in that thread, Tesla time for "soon" can be e.g. two years. To my understanding, that is the time chademo adapter has been "coming soon" (I know, it is now shipping to those, who are in the waiting list)

Yep, 'soon' can translate to two years or two months or two weeks. What's far more important is understanding that some things being two years soon vs two weeks soon end up having the exact same end result, making 'soon' irrelevant. It has already been pointed out by the CEO that China doesn't have to be two week, two month, or any time this year soon for Tesla to carry on with their plans and successfully reach Model 3 soon.

 

[Curt Renz]

I know it is done with the best intentions, but please dont move posts. Keep this as the one-stop shop. (I really liked this image) Copy posts perhaps? But dont move.. I miss the old short term tesla thread, with charts and everything.

if it aint broken...

+1
I am also in the camp that prefers all information that potentially affects the price of TSLA shares be placed in a single thread. That includes supposedly short-term and long-term considerations, since both equally affect today's stock price and the far future price. In my opinion, only matters that cannot have any bearing on the share price belong elsewhere.

 

[Larken]

+1
I am also in the camp that prefers all information that potentially affects the price of TSLA shares be placed in a single thread. That includes supposedly short-term and long-term considerations, since both equally affect today's stock price and the far future price. In my opinion, only matters that cannot have any bearing on the share price belong elsewhere.

+ 1

Why don't we just vote on the matter....?

 

[FluxCap]

Not to beat a dead horse here but it is sad to see this thread dismantled. This was always my one stop shop for all things Tesla. What I really liked about this thread is that news is very often broken hear first. I also enjoyed the occasional posting of the chartists and seeing how that played into the price movement. I haven't even looked at the chart thread since it was created or the recently created FUD thread. It is becoming way to many things to follow. I don't quite understand the need to split everything up because at the end of the day everything still relates back to TSLA.

I would tend to agree. I understand the desire to frame discussion, but I think the sign of the best moderation is lighter moderation that you barely know is there, "it just works."

 

[GardenEye]

I would tend to agree. I understand the desire to frame discussion, but I think the sign of the best moderation is lighter moderation that you barely know is there, "it just works."

As a Model S85 owner and new investor in the company I too have - from afar - relished all the views and variety surrounding TSLA (have made some good and bad trades as a result). I'm strictly in for the long term although buying in the short and trading before "take off time" (Model X) as a sort of retirement plan in 20 years time. Might be nuts... but I own one, I can't help it.

 

[sub]

I also vote to stop moving posts, just as I did last year when the new thread setup was being discussed. One stop shopping, I leave this thread open on my PC and iphone at all times and rarely visit other threads.

 

[SteveG3]

a few thoughts on changes to this thread,

1. I would also like to see the change this week rethought

2. I think a few days discussion amongst us and time for moderators to consider what's feasible will help here. I suspect there is a better solution than just the current scenario or what was in place before the change... but if I'm wrong we can always go with one of those two in a few days.

3. Despite the fact that I agree this latest change (of course well intended) feels awkward and confusing as to what this thread is for, I doubt that I'm alone in having had times last year I just could not keep up with the amount of posts on this thread (and once falling a day or two behind would feel daunted at catching up on 100 posts, and end up many days and a few hundred posts behind, which meant possibly missing some actual new material information).

4. I do think inevitably we all kind of gravitate to the desire of a "catch all thread"/one main conversation where you know pretty much all investors are staying connected. To me that's been a core function of this thread.

5. Putting points 3 and 4 together, I'll return to the suggestion of a new "news bulletin" thread... so there's one "just the facts" place you can go and within 10 minutes a day keep up on any new information material to your investment (without any of our analysis, commentary,...), and another place, this thread, for the catch-all discussion, and thoughts on the impact of anything out there on the stocks near term price movement.

News article, analyst reports, etc. with links would get posted to the "news bulletin" thread without any analysis or opinion, and whoever posts them can simply add a statement of which thread it is being discussed on (short-term price movement, Apple potential deal, long-term fundamentals, EU market place,...).

7. As to a separate place for discussion of distortion. Rather than placing every article there, the thread created this week can be about themes. Attempts to distort perception tend to be carried out in a "campaign" repeating the message. The new thread can be used for identifying, debunking what's become apparent is a distortion theme. The thread can also keep track of where the theme is appearing. This thread will be helpful for "newbies" and could be a great place for the rest of us to direct friends who are getting spooked by what they are seeing online.

--------

While I did give my specific suggestions towards the end, they are not the main point. Again, I just want to encourage us giving this a few days for putting ideas out there rather than just undoing this week's change immediately and calling it a day.

Update Given the clarification from Robert in the next post, I think we should give things a try along the lines of what he described, and not get into the larger discussion I was suggesting of what threads to add/drop etc at this point.

 

[Robert.Boston]

I just want to be clear here -- is this still the purpose of this thread, or is news supposed to go in multiple places now?

Sorry for the ambiguity, and I appreciate the collective feedback. Please keep "news flashes" here so that important news is visible here. If the thread starts in on a deep-dive on a particular article, let's keep that deep-dive over in Articles re Tesla—Fact or Fiction?

We'll try this for a bit, and if it doesn't work, we'll go back to keeping everything here.

 

[Gerasimental]

This is a bit meta now, but maybe the discussion regarding the breakdown of threads and the respective roles they all play and should play should not occur in here? After all that is one that that really doesn't have any bearings on TSLA or Tesla, and it seems to be important enough to enough people to warrant having a dedicated discussion about it rather than diluting the Tesla-related posts on here. Apologies, I realise this post also falls into the category of posts with no relevance to TSLA or Tesla.

 

[austinEV]

Guys, there is some selective memory going on here. Everyone is nostalgic for the all-in-one short term thread, but remember the big complaint was that it was HUGE. You take a day off and there would be hundreds of posts in there, with criss-crossing conversations and people getting confused about who you were responding to etc. Then people complained about technical analysis, because half of the people think it's pointless voodoo (and the other half thinks its entertaining voodoo). Then the long-term thread was broken off to end the bickering about people saying "in the end it doesn't matter, this is just the short term! ignore this weeks movement!" Each of these moves had a reason, and have ongoing value. This latest move, to offload the "fact or fiction" talk was to, wisely, stop from getting derailed about every day's fresh FUD article harvest. For the last 5-6 weeks the short term thread was becoming dominated by refuting the same bad bear arguments, and discussing poorly written articles that some of us don't think deserved being discussed.

Splitting up the threads doesn't increase the amount of "time" it takes to read things, it just seems too. That content would have been in the monster short term thread anyway, just more chaotic. And, to the extent that the individual threads invite more analysis and response to the slower moving topics, so much the better. That is the point. By having a general market thread which is just about that, the commentary stays focused on the topic at hand.

The bad things to watch for are 1) discussions being duplicated in parallel threads 2) to much actual discussion on the proper filing of content. Otherwise I don't see the recent splits as being terribly destructive.

 

[vgrinshpun]

Guys, there is some selective memory going on here. Everyone is nostalgic for the all-in-one short term thread, but remember the big complaint was that it was HUGE. You take a day off and there would be hundreds of posts in there, with criss-crossing conversations and people getting confused about who you were responding to etc. Then people complained about technical analysis, because half of the people think it's pointless voodoo (and the other half thinks its entertaining voodoo). Then the long-term thread was broken off to end the bickering about people saying "in the end it doesn't matter, this is just the short term! ignore this weeks movement!" Each of these moves had a reason, and have ongoing value. This latest move, to offload the "fact or fiction" talk was to, wisely, stop from getting derailed about every day's fresh FUD article harvest. For the last 5-6 weeks the short term thread was becoming dominated by refuting the same bad bear arguments, and discussing poorly written articles that some of us don't think deserved being discussed.

Splitting up the threads doesn't increase the amount of "time" it takes to read things, it just seems too. That content would have been in the monster short term thread anyway, just more chaotic. And, to the extent that the individual threads invite more analysis and response to the slower moving topics, so much the better. That is the point. By having a general market thread which is just about that, the commentary stays focused on the topic at hand.

The bad things to watch for are 1) discussions being duplicated in parallel threads 2) to much actual discussion on the proper filing of content. Otherwise I don't see the recent splits as being terribly destructive.

(+1) x (n+1)!

 

[NigelM]

My 2c: I would personally like to see us all take a more open view on discussing bullish or bearish articles and analyst notes. We seem to experience a collective sugar rush when there's a bullish article or note while (it seems to me at least) bearish comments are too quickly labeled as FUD or fiction often accompanied by accusations of intent. E.g. The recent WSJ article was quickly labeled as FUD (which has in my mind become a negative term) by a few folks and although the author was missing a key point or two (could we assume uneducated rather than deliberate?) there was also a couple of valid points regarding production prioritization and paucity of sales data.

Long time members know I've been "in" since the beginning and continue to be positive about TSLA for the future, I've also had moments where I thought TSLA was over-valued (as Elon has) and right now I'm kind-of neutral for the short-term; my point being that yes there are some true FUDsters out there but I do think bear articles can be just as useful and helpful as bull articles.

- - - Updated - - -

We'll try this for a bit, and if it doesn't work, we'll go back to keeping everything here.

It's tough being a moderator (I tried it for 3 years and definitely made my fair share of mistakes). Kudos for re-looking at it.

 

[The Blue Owl]

It's tough being a moderator (I tried it for 3 years and definitely made my fair share of mistakes). Kudos for re-looking at it.

Yes, I second this. The moderators are performing a difficult balancing act, and all too often they find themselves on the receiving end of various irate post(er)s regardless of what they decide. Emotions run high with this stock, in which many forum participants have invested serious money, on top of the emotional investment that comes with Tesla in particular, a company that pushes people's buttons like no other. On one hand, everyone remembers GTAT, and no one wants to repeat it. On the other hand, there is really no comparison between the two companies, but the media coverage is, on average, wildly inaccurate. Plenty of room for confusion, when so many of the financial and media pros aren't doing their jobs (or are doing it for the wrong masters). When we start to turn on each other and question each other's motives, they're achieving their goals.

It is clear to me that the moderators are really doing their best to prevent that from happening, and they deserve respect for trying to do what's best for the forum, even if it means revisiting a decision or two. You guys are doing a great job under difficult circumstances. It's a thankless job, and it shouldn't be, so, thank you, guys.

 

[doggusfluffy]

It's tough being a moderator (I tried it for 3 years and definitely made my fair share of mistakes). Kudos for re-looking at it.

Thanks again to the mods for what is usually thankless work!

What about an Investors Lounge or something for the tip of the spear topic discussion? Might aid clarity, but I dunno.

I'm all for articulating the Bear arguments so please don't shy away and keep those coming. If I'm voting I guess. :biggrin:

 

[SteveG3]

Good points re moderators job... thanks for doing this, you all donate a lot of time for all of our benefit.

Robert's comment right after mine today clarifying the relationship of the "short term price movement" thread and the new "distortion" thread makes sense to me. It seems we can just run with things as Robert described rather than now opening up again a larger discussion of how threads should be organized as I had suggested.

Perhaps it would be helpful if we try to get in the habit of bolding links to new information (or some other way to have them stick out), so it's a little easier to skim the short-term thread.

 

[FluxCap]

My 2c: I would personally like to see us all take a more open view on discussing bullish or bearish articles and analyst notes.

I agree with Nigel on this. Though I am often the first to point out baseless attack "clickbait" with no factual merit, I welcome legitimate bearish criticism of the company if based in fundamentals and facts. Anyone who does not want to read alternative viewpoints on an investment is handicapping their market knowledge, and a cheerleading / hating forum is of much less use to serious investors, I think.

What I liked seeing in the "short-term thread" was a mix of TA charts, news articles, trade theses, and price action discussion based in actual hypotheses other than "I just think so." The thread got cluttered with newcomers who just liked to talk about Tesla in general last year, and that was of much less value I thought.

I also liked the old "social chat" thread from last year, but perhaps that's nostalgia on my part because I miss chatting with Sleepy, Dave, Citizen-T, Causalien, Curt and other current or former financial professionals.

 

[FANGO]

Sorry for the ambiguity, and I appreciate the collective feedback. Please keep "news flashes" here so that important news is visible here. If the thread starts in on a deep-dive on a particular article, let's keep that deep-dive over in Articles re Tesla—Fact or Fiction?

We'll try this for a bit, and if it doesn't work, we'll go back to keeping everything here.

It doesn't work, and people are clamoring for you to stop moving posts.

I never posted here, I posted my comments in short term movements. I will continue to post on short term movements. I post there because that's the thread I intend to post to. I'm unsubscribing from this thread because it's a complete waste of time and I never subscribed to it or posted to it to begin with. Please stop moving posts. Nobody wants this crap.

 

[Wenche]

I agree with Nigel on this. Though I am often the first to point out baseless attack "clickbait" with no factual merit, I welcome legitimate bearish criticism of the company if based in fundamentals and facts. Anyone who does not want to read alternative viewpoints on an investment is handicapping their market knowledge, and a cheerleading / hating forum is of much less use to serious investors, I think.

What I liked seeing in the "short-term thread" was a mix of TA charts, news articles, trade theses, and price action discussion based in actual hypotheses other than "I just think so." The thread got cluttered with newcomers who just liked to talk about Tesla in general last year, and that was of much less value I thought.

I also liked the old "social chat" thread from last year, but perhaps that's nostalgia on my part because I miss chatting with Sleepy, Dave, Citizen-T, Causalien, Curt and other current or former financial professionals.

+ 1 I totally agree with your thoughts regarding the "short term" content and I too miss the "social chat".

 

[ev-enthusiast]

+ 1 I totally agree with your thoughts regarding the "short term" content and I too miss the "social chat".

++1

 

[FluxCap]

There does seem to be a lot of noise lately. Perhaps that's just part of being more popular to a wider audience. Ah well, doing the best we can I suppose.