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Ioniq 5 vs Model Y
- Thread starter WADan
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yes, it definitely turns my head whenever I see one. Sorry, but I hate the design, It looks like it is from a cheap si-fi movie. BUT it is very subjective matter, so everyone's opinion will vary.
mangrove79
Member
Sadly I haven't seen one in the wild, or perhaps I have but didn't notice. It was pretty striking the very first time I saw it in a YouTube video, but the more I look at it, the less attractive it becomes. It just doesn't have a consistent design philosophy, seems to me. The headlights and taillights are too tricked out compared to the rest of the exterior. I can recognize an MY from a quarter-mile away, but never an I5.
Buying way too much vehicle is definitely a thing. Something that I myself did for years but I think it's just a metaphorical 'cucumber in the pants' thing now. Still, terrible car accidents do occur and you'll always be safer with more mass. At least with an EV it's more justifiable because your fueling cost are generally so low.
When I purchased my GMC Canyon 4x4 diesel I managed and owned a portion of recycling company with heavy duty trucks that required that I drive a pickup (hauling truckers, picking up supplies, tools, chains, tires, etc.). I still own 1 heavy duty truck but also am very active with mountain biking so still need my pickup truck several times per week. That pickup was $45K new and it has a lifetime mpg average over 27. Haven't spent any maintenance money yet on it besides tires and oil changes.
I prefer to drive something sporty but alas, I still require something more substantial & capable.
The high end Chevy EV truck is scheduled to cost $107K with 400 miles of range. I expect the CT to be in a similar price bracket.
Those are positively insane numbers from Edmunds.
My Grand Cherokee Eco-D has a 10 year/ 120K warranty for free due to the diesel emissions scandal. Besides oil changes that I do myself, 2-3 fuel filter changes that I do myself, and the rear brakes I just did at 73K miles, I've spent very little on maintenance or repairs out of pocket. I had a reprogram fee I had to eat once as I recall. It has no spark plugs, the tranny fluid is lifetime. Well less than $1.5K has been spent on maintenance & repairs and it's a 2014 that I purchased new so it's 8 years old. A quick calculation shows fuel costs have been less than $8K during those 8 years. I'm less than half of Edmunds costs.
It wasn't financed but either way that's a wash between different vehicles as rates are not vehicle specific.
Depreciation, yah it's a total turd in that regard and that's easily the largest loss and the reason I'm just giving it to my daughter as her first vehicle (and she is only 10 now!). I paid $45K for it, received $4.5K for the diesel scandal, and it's worth a max of $18K after 9 years and 2 fender benders. So it's lost $22K in 8 years, that's steep by my standards. It is the top of the line model however and a pleasure to drive.
Insurance is super cheap. Like I said I did get a quote on a MYP about 2 years ago and it was a large increase at Allstate. Maybe cause it was the P? Literally the annual insurance increase was as much as that vehicle's entire annual fuel bill at that time (diesel was 50% of today's rates then).
I'm not sure why so many seem to accept large maintenance bills as normal on relatively new vehicles. Modern cars should be 100% maintenance free for the first 100K. If your vehicles are not, let me suggest a GM. They are the most reliable vehicles ime. My '08 GMC truck required nothing till it hit 200K and that's not an exaggeration. And even then it was a tune up, battery, water pump, and rear brakes (rear brakes go out first now because of TC).
Personally I'm just not coming up with nearly as high of ICE maintenance costs as others are I guess. Anecdotally I do see some significant out of warranty Tesla repairs however. High enough to get rid of all the fuel savings and then some. Wasn't there recently a completely totaled Model S with only 200K miles due to the battery pack degradation? That's unacceptable for a car of that price.
The possibility of lower lifetime operating costs is definitely there with EVs, I just don't see it yet.
What's the coolant change service cost on the I5? Any other scheduled services?
I thought the Ioniq 5 was 80s inspired. The pixel lights in the back with the boxy 80s design brings back memories of the Toyota 86 with Atari game system.
Turn head for sure, and I have people stopped me in the parking asking about the car. I think it looks kind of cool and different, but my wife and family members think it looks ugly as sin. It is very subjective, but I would say overall most people would still prefer the looks of Tesla over I5. It's a safer design language right now.
this is why the price is cheap right now. By the time you're satisfied, it will be back up.
It's less that you're bad at math, but rather you're bouncing between ignorant and dishonest in the number that you use.
Like comparing the costs of maintenance on your truck with 95k miles to 150k Teslas (that's how you wrote it). As you noted, most new cars have little maint for the first 100k (though Japanese cars still have a major service at 60k and euro lux cars are starting to fall apart already). By 200k the numbers are quite different.
And then telling us that you do all the work yourself. Of course the economics look better, but most people don't want to do this, don't know how to, and shouldn't. When it comes to the basic oil change, I could easily do it, but the hassle of disposal outweighs the savings. For solar installs, someone else should be punching holes in their roof, and fiddling with the main panel.
Your state appears to have cheap power, but that doesn't translate to everyone. In CA, where power costs double the national average and continues to increase at 6% per year, I can spend 24k to install a 7.5KW system and break even in the same 8. Those with bigger roofs could use cheaper panels and break even in as little as 5. The 25 year ROI is 12%. While you cited the recent bull market average of the S&P as 14.5%, that would be malpractice for a financial advisor as the historic average is under 11, and with considerable uneveness as seen this year. The electric company otoh is not going to suddenly get cheaper - there are a lot of old FF based investments that still need to be paid for, and a lot of overdue equipment to modernize in the grid.
Your insurer may not like the EV, but did you bother to get other quotes? That's on you. Many (most?) of us have not seen a change, other than in going from an older, lowered valued car to a new one at msrp coverage).
Unfortunately, the problem with this forum, is that anything less than absolute Tesla fanboy-ism results in a lot of arguing and downvotes, with precious little logic to back it up.
I could go through and point out your lack of sense & congruity in nearly everything you posted, but what's the point? It's clear you didn't read what I actually posted, or just didn't understand it.
One excellent thing about the CT forum, is that you have more practical straight shooting individuals so you can post with out being attacked from all angles for having a different position/ experience/ opinion. The group down there is applying real world logic and common sense to the EV equation so even though we are all EV fans, we try and not let that completely cloud our judgment.
My initial point that you will never save money buying a MY over an equivalent ICE Accord or the like, and that you should buy the EV primarily for it's joy to operate, still remains and is still 100% factually true. No amount of crappy math or you MY fanboys claiming 5 figures of maintenance costs on an Accord in 100K miles is going to change the actual facts. Picking apart my changing my own oil doesn't change reality.
GL
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
hardly fanboyism. You've made disingenuous, shifting arguments and then complain when people call you out on it. I've only had my MY for 2 years, but so far it's been a good deal for me, and I haven't had to do my own oil changes.
I think the whole cost to own depends on the car you compare to. Lets take my example...had an IS350 F-sport for 5 years. I ate up my performance tires (18 inch PS4s) at a faster clip than my M3P but lets call that a wash. It used about $3k a year in premium fuel and my M3P uses about $700 a year in electricity if I didn't have solar...but I have solar which i've recovered the costs in 5 years so its $0 cost to me at this point.
I bought my IS350 for about $50k and my M3P for $57k...but my M3P is significantly faster. If you were to compare equally high performing cars, you'd have to go with the M3 at the time of the purchase (which was ~$85k). My annual maintenance for the IS350 was about $150 for oil changes and my brakes lasted about 20k per set. My battery went out in year 3 so a wash compared to the M3P. Total cost of brake job was 3x $500 or about $1500 total. So I had the car for about 5 years and 60k miles, the total came out to about ~$2k in maintenance and $15k in fuel or about $17k to run the car (excluding tire costs).
My M3P has cost me so far about $40 in maintenance (air filters) and $0 to run the car due to solar (excluding solar for 5 years...probably would cost around $3500). But keep in mind, there is a GINORMOUS performance gap between the two cars... my friend's BMW M3 has cost way more money than my IS350 over the same period. I don't see how EVs don't save you money in many situations that are similar to mine (which is not unusual).
I bought my IS350 for about $50k and my M3P for $57k...but my M3P is significantly faster. If you were to compare equally high performing cars, you'd have to go with the M3 at the time of the purchase (which was ~$85k). My annual maintenance for the IS350 was about $150 for oil changes and my brakes lasted about 20k per set. My battery went out in year 3 so a wash compared to the M3P. Total cost of brake job was 3x $500 or about $1500 total. So I had the car for about 5 years and 60k miles, the total came out to about ~$2k in maintenance and $15k in fuel or about $17k to run the car (excluding tire costs).
My M3P has cost me so far about $40 in maintenance (air filters) and $0 to run the car due to solar (excluding solar for 5 years...probably would cost around $3500). But keep in mind, there is a GINORMOUS performance gap between the two cars... my friend's BMW M3 has cost way more money than my IS350 over the same period. I don't see how EVs don't save you money in many situations that are similar to mine (which is not unusual).
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
No, you were supposed to assume below average maintenance costs with no labor for your ICE car and above average returns in the stock market, then take $37k from the cost of the model 3 and invest it all in the stock market, while getting a $20k car so you could explain why your EV was a horrible deal.
I know how EVs don't save money (at least for now).
1. most people don't have solar setup.
2. Most people didn't buy non performance version because of their age/preference/goal etc. Most Tesla owners are NOT car people meaning they came from another hybrids (Prius) or just non performance cars. If you compare MY/M3s with regular sedans/cuv/suvs, the price difference is more than doubled. For example, we had Mazda CX-5 ($32k) before MYP ($72k), and I don't have solar like most people. Mazda required every 5k oil change cost $50 per year, and had one brake job ($300) and original tires (48k miles). We had it for 5 years, and the total maintenance cost was negligible like less than $800 for 5 years.
If you can save $2k-$3k for gas with EV, that's still 12-20 years to get even with the total ownership cost. I didn't even add any maintenance cost for EVs here along with highway use fees that EV owners have to pay in VA, $109 per year on top of regular registration fee.
This is how you cannot save money with EVs (for now at least).
How do you take performance out of the equation which is a primary factor in people choosing their vehicles. The MY/M3 compare with mid/high performance versions of other cars so you can't arbitrarily say it costs double when you compare it to a Prius. Just because Tesla doesn't offer something as slow as the CX-5 doesn't mean Tesla should be penalized for that.
My point is, you can't compare other hybrids or regular CUVs to the Model Y/3 and say it doesn't save money...they aren't comparable cars. Compare it to the class in which it competes and you can have a more reasonable argument on cost savings.
Yes, the CX-5 is cheaper but man, its way slower and the infotainment and overall experience are noticeably worse. I know...I have a Mazda which I'm getting rid of soon for another EV (hopefully an Ioniq 5).
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
All of that is what really makes it impossible to compare - everyone values each of these things differently. Value is more than just how much an item costs, it's what you get for your money, now well it fills your needs and other intangible considerations.
As I said before, no one expects to make money on a car. All in all, EVs are more expensive to purchase, but some of that is offset by other savings. You can go down multiple rabbit holes trying to account for all the variables. In the end you have to make the decision works for you.
Undecided_2
Member
IMO. The message needs to be stop thinking of saving money and make life style changes. Play a part in the solution and stop being a part of the problem.
What’s the point of being a millionaire in 30-years if the earth is too toxic to enjoy from people buying cheap ICE cars.
What’s the point of being a millionaire in 30-years if the earth is too toxic to enjoy from people buying cheap ICE cars.
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