Ioniq 5 vs Model Y

[Apprunner]

My only point making these posts is that an EV can save you money depending on what you are used to. Overtime, I bet a comparable EV will save money while if you compare a Tesla to an Prius, it will not save you money (again, different class car). If you assume you have a lump sum of cash and take the difference, then yes, you will do better from an investment perspective but its a ridiculous assumption because 90% of people finance their cars.

Every situation is different but most of my Tesla friends also have solar which came with the house they bought. So most of them save a boatload compared to $6/gal of gas.

 

[Dennisis]

I didn't buy my Tesla's to save money but have enjoyed the savings. Just returned from a 2 week trip back home in NY and had to pay for gas for two weeks (it's been a long time now) - reminded me how much that sucks, especially now. No thanks!!

 

[Suns_PSD]

How do you take performance out of the equation which is a primary factor in people choosing their vehicles. The MY/M3 compare with mid/high performance versions of other cars so you can't arbitrarily say it costs double when you compare it to a Prius. Just because Tesla doesn't offer something as slow as the CX-5 doesn't mean Tesla should be penalized for that.

My point is, you can't compare other hybrids or regular CUVs to the Model Y/3 and say it doesn't save money...they aren't comparable cars. Compare it to the class in which it competes and you can have a more reasonable argument on cost savings.

Yes, the CX-5 is cheaper but man, its way slower and the infotainment and overall experience are noticeably worse. I know...I have a Mazda which I'm getting rid of soon for another EV (hopefully an Ioniq 5).

I'm reluctant to get drawn back in to this, but you have reasonable points.

Here is my counterpoint: The M3 or Y, in spite of there high prices, are NOT a high end performance/ luxury car. They are actually cheaply built EVs, with an extremely basic (read cheap to manufacture) interior, that like all EVs absolutely hauls A** and has a low center of gravity.

I do love that Tesla has optimized weight reduction as from a performance perspective lightweight trumps everything. In a car that prioritizes performance this is nearly ideal. The problem is that the Teslas have no controls, poorly blended brakes which is why there is 1 pedal driving, poor seats with no venting, no electronic dashboard, no noise insulation, poor riding suspension, cheap cast wheels, 3 color choices, etc. These are not high end or luxury auto attributes.

If mad acceleration is your primary determinant for 'luxury', then yes these are high end luxury cars as is every other EV. But by any other measures commonly used to differentiate a high end car they are just low content EVs.

That's my opinion and I know that the Tesla forum will go nuts over this, but really, look at the cars honestly.

Just guessing here but I think this above is why GM/ Stellantis/ VW all feel that they can quickly and easily dethrone Tesla from the EV crown. They see what's in a Tesla and realize that this is a very basic automobile. The Spartan basic feel of Tesla's felt fresh and modern at first but some of the car reviewers are pointing out how 'unsubstantial' and 'basic' they really feel at this point.

 

[Apprunner]

I'm reluctant to get drawn back in to this, but you have reasonable points.

Here is my counterpoint: The M3 or Y, in spite of there high prices, are NOT a high end performance/ luxury car. They are actually cheaply built EVs, with an extremely basic (read cheap to manufacture) interior, that like all EVs absolutely hauls A** and has a low center of gravity.

I do love that Tesla has optimized weight reduction as from a performance perspective lightweight trumps everything. In a car that prioritizes performance this is nearly ideal. The problem is that the Teslas have no controls, poorly blended brakes which is why there is 1 pedal driving, poor seats with no venting, no electronic dashboard, no noise insulation, poor riding suspension, cheap cast wheels, 3 color choices, etc. These are not high end or luxury auto attributes.

If mad acceleration is your primary determinant for 'luxury', then yes these are high end luxury cars as is every other EV. But by any other measures commonly used to differentiate a high end car they are just low content EVs.

That's my opinion and I know that the Tesla forum will go nuts over this, but really, look at the cars honestly.

Just guessing here but I think this above is why GM/ Stellantis/ VW all feel that they can quickly and easily dethrone Tesla from the EV crown. They see what's in a Tesla and realize that this is a very basic automobile. The Spartan basic feel of Tesla's felt fresh and modern at first but some of the car reviewers are pointing out how 'unsubstantial' and 'basic' they really feel at this point.

I can agree that the Teslas aren't at the level of luxury brands. I don't consider Tesla luxury...more premium sport. Design is subjective and I like the minimalist interior and I think the materials are slightly above something like a mainstream Toyota / Honda but the price reflects this too. A M3P is about as expensive as a fully loaded 330 or a base 340.

There is never a fully apples to apples comparison but I think the argument that EVs won't save money by comparing a Prius to a Tesla is silly. My only point is that if you want premium / luxury and you choose a Tesla, then it may save you a noticeable amount of money realizing that you are sacrificing the luxury of a premium brand.

If you feel Tesla appeals to you as much as a Rav4 and that is your comparison basis, then you won't save money.

 

[thesmokingman]

I didn't buy my Tesla's to save money but have enjoyed the savings. Just returned from a 2 week trip back home in NY and had to pay for gas for two weeks (it's been a long time now) - reminded me how much that sucks, especially now. No thanks!!

I was gonna suggest rent an EV but it may be hard with EV rental demand at insane levels. Hertz can't keep 'em in stock. And last I read, they thru in charging.

 

[chinney]

I'm reluctant to get drawn back in to this, but you have reasonable points.

Here is my counterpoint: The M3 or Y, in spite of there high prices, are NOT a high end performance/ luxury car. They are actually cheaply built EVs, with an extremely basic (read cheap to manufacture) interior, that like all EVs absolutely hauls A** and has a low center of gravity.

I do love that Tesla has optimized weight reduction as from a performance perspective lightweight trumps everything. In a car that prioritizes performance this is nearly ideal. The problem is that the Teslas have no controls, poorly blended brakes which is why there is 1 pedal driving, poor seats with no venting, no electronic dashboard, no noise insulation, poor riding suspension, cheap cast wheels, 3 color choices, etc. These are not high end or luxury auto attributes.

If mad acceleration is your primary determinant for 'luxury', then yes these are high end luxury cars as is every other EV. But by any other measures commonly used to differentiate a high end car they are just low content EVs.

That's my opinion and I know that the Tesla forum will go nuts over this, but really, look at the cars honestly.

Just guessing here but I think this above is why GM/ Stellantis/ VW all feel that they can quickly and easily dethrone Tesla from the EV crown. They see what's in a Tesla and realize that this is a very basic automobile. The Spartan basic feel of Tesla's felt fresh and modern at first but some of the car reviewers are pointing out how 'unsubstantial' and 'basic' they really feel at this point.

Maybe some fair points, in part, but I do think that you are underselling the nature and quality of what Tesla has achieved in the Model 3. Some of this is a matter of taste and impressions. I love the single-screen controls and have come to dislike the controls of standard cars. I have had no problem with the brakes. One-pedal driving is great. The seats are just fine. The noise insulation is so-so, but has been improved in recent model years. The suspension is outstanding if you like it firm, which I most certainly do. I have no opinion about the wheels. More colour choices would be nice, but I am very happy with our red version. And beyond those points, the handling is excellent and what Tesla has done with the EV power train is remarkable. Our Model 3 is a joy to drive. Best car that I have had by far.

But I absolutely agree that other manufacturers are coming after Tesla. And I hope that they do. I would like to see many other quality choices for EVs and I am counting on manufacturers, including Tesla, working to get prices down, increase range and make the vehicles lighter in weight.

 

[Silicon Desert]

I can agree that the Teslas aren't at the level of luxury brands. I don't consider Tesla luxury...more premium sport. Design is subjective and I like the minimalist interior and I think the materials are slightly above something like a mainstream Toyota / Honda but the price reflects this too. A M3P is about as expensive as a fully loaded 330 or a base 340.

There is never a fully apples to apples comparison but I think the argument that EVs won't save money by comparing a Prius to a Tesla is silly. My only point is that if you want premium / luxury and you choose a Tesla, then it may save you a noticeable amount of money realizing that you are sacrificing the luxury of a premium brand.

If you feel Tesla appeals to you as much as a Rav4 and that is your comparison basis, then you won't save money.

yea, that is pretty much my assessment after driving an MX for 5 years. Side note, I've saved roughly $7,100 in gasoline, but that is not the reason I bought the car and since it is more expensive than a comparable gasoline car, I don't call it a gas savings.

 

[mangrove79]

Anecdotal experience is how we form our opinions, and there is nothing wrong with that. We just need to make sure when we try to generalize that opinion into a blanket statement we consider where that anecdotal experience is on the spectrum.

 

[BigNerd]

I consider the Y a luxury vehicle... so for $40k (SR before Covidflation), it compared well to luxury brands. It had more features than base trim luxury cars (where you had to pay more for seat heaters or power memory seats).

Now starting at $63k, I don't consider it comparable and would probably go for one of the $40k EVs I listed previously but I still think any EV around the $40k mark is a better savings than $30k ICE cars.

My full-size Silverado cost $50k... I'm sure the work version of the Lightning at $40k has probably the same feature set and cost less even before the Fed credit.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Maybe some fair points, in part, but I do think that you are underselling the nature and quality of what Tesla has achieved in the Model 3. Some of this is a matter of taste and impressions. I love the single-screen controls and have come to dislike the controls of standard cars. I have had no problem with the brakes. One-pedal driving is great. The seats are just fine. The noise insulation is so-so, but has been improved in recent model years. The suspension is outstanding if you like it firm, which I most certainly do. I have no opinion about the wheels. More colour choices would be nice, but I am very happy with our red version. And beyond those points, the handling is excellent and what Tesla has done with the EV power train is remarkable. Our Model 3 is a joy to drive. Best car that I have had by far.

But I absolutely agree that other manufacturers are coming after Tesla. And I hope that they do. I would like to see many other quality choices for EVs and I am counting on manufacturers, including Tesla, working to get prices down, increase range and make the vehicles lighter in weight.

Thank you for the reasoned response and I find your points fair and relevant.

I have 2 EV deposits currently (CT for me & Lyriq for my wife) but I'll admit those are really just to get in line as I work out what features matter to me, and which ones do not, and actually pick the EV I'd like to buy first.

The Lyriq really is a very good fit for my wife & as the family run around car, and if it does what it's supposed to do, I suspect it offers the most value by a landslide. An Insideevs editor & current Tesla owner offered the same opinion having spent time with the Lyriq.

If I was able to buy a new M3LR for what you likely paid for yours brand new back around 2019, it would be a much easier decision to choose the M3P as a personal run around car. In the meantime I've immersed myself in reviews and tech comparisons to try and make the most educated decision. It's a world were real world test drives are virtually non-existent after all.

 

[Apprunner]

Thank you for the reasoned response and I find your points fair and relevant.

I have 2 EV deposits currently (CT for me & Lyriq for my wife) but I'll admit those are really just to get in line as I work out what features matter to me, and which ones do not, and actually pick the EV I'd like to buy first.

The Lyriq really is a very good fit for my wife & as the family run around car, and if it does what it's supposed to do, I suspect it offers the most value by a landslide. An Insideevs editor & current Tesla owner offered the same opinion having spent time with the Lyriq.

If I was able to buy a new M3LR for what you likely paid for yours brand new back around 2019, it would be a much easier decision to choose the M3P as a personal run around car. In the meantime I've immersed myself in reviews and tech comparisons to try and make the most educated decision. It's a world were real world test drives are virtually non-existent after all.

Times have changed when I bought my M3P back in early 2019. My car with rebates was about $58k and there were no other options in the market. There wasn't even acceleration boost at the time of purchase.

There are way more options now and competition is much better and only getting stronger. If the Model Y was mid $50k range, I would pick it over the Ioniq 5 but there is now a $14k difference in pricing between the two with rebates. The Lyriq looks like a really nice contender too and the new Polestar 3 also looks enticing. I wish I could find someone to sell me a car though...its hard to even buy one of these things

 

[Alan_F]

poorly blended brakes which is why there is 1 pedal driving,

Can you elaborate on what you mean? I was under the impression that Teslas have never had blended brakes at all. I understand 'blended brakes' to mean the brake pedal engages regenerative braking and then friction brakes as needed, and that some hybrids and EVs have had weird-feeling brake pedals when the blending between the two braking modes was done poorly. But the Tesla brake pedal is 100% actuating the friction brakes, so it should feel like a normal brake pedal with no transition from one type of braking to another.

 

[thesmokingman]

I consider the Y a luxury vehicle... so for $40k (SR before Covidflation), it compared well to luxury brands. It had more features than base trim luxury cars (where you had to pay more for seat heaters or power memory seats).

Now starting at $63k, I don't consider it comparable and would probably go for one of the $40k EVs I listed previously but I still think any EV around the $40k mark is a better savings than $30k ICE cars.

My full-size Silverado cost $50k... I'm sure the work version of the Lightning at $40k has probably the same feature set and cost less even before the Fed credit.

When we got our MYP it was 63k add 10k for FSD. At 73k it was still cheaper than its main rivals the BMW X3 M and the AMD GLC 63, especially when you tack on options to match the three. In edmunds comparo between the three the X3 spec'd out at 84k and the AMG at 90k. When Edmunds did the comparo the MYP was even cheaper. In this case, I'm highlighting apples to apples.

Drag Race: Tesla Model Y vs. BMW X3 M vs. Mercedes-Benz AMG GLC 63 | Edmunds

Is the Tesla Model Y faster than the top small SUVs from BMW and Mercedes? Join the Edmunds experts as they put all three pedals to the metal and determine whether the BMW X3 M and Mercedes-Benz AMG GLC 63 can keep up with Fremont's finest.

www.edmunds.com

 

[Undecided_2]

someone to sell me a car though...its hard to even buy one of these things

The Polestar 3 does look very tasty! I have an MYP on order but the Polestar has my attention. Google mapping, selectable suspension, and if the build quality on the Polestar 2 is anything to go by, yum, yum!

 

[sleepydoc]

Tesla is in a strange position. It's not really a luxury brand (at least not for the 3 or Y) but it's above other brands (at least in many ways) and there are many aspects that are just different. The market right now is so distorted that it's really hard do any analysis. Next try to account for depreciation! The one thing I do like about Tesla is that while they may have raised their prices, if you order at a price they honor that price. You don't have a dealer adding $5k 'additional dealer markup.'

The suspension is outstanding if you like it firm, which I most certainly do.

I agree with most of your post, but I have to disagree here. The MY suspension is just harsh. Tesla tried to take a shortcut and just plop the Model 3 suspension in the MY and call it good but it doesn't work well. If you just want drive it's harsh and if you want performance it doesn't do well either, hence all the 3rd party suspension upgrade packages available.

 

[sleepydoc]

The Polestar 3 does look very tasty! I have an MYP on order but the Polestar has my attention. Google mapping, selectable suspension, and if the build quality on the Polestar 2 is anything to go by, yum, yum!

didn't they have to recall all of the polestar 2s?

 

[thesmokingman]

If you just want drive it's harsh and if you want performance it doesn't do well either, hence all the 3rd party suspension upgrade packages available.

This is false equivalence.

The Model 3 and Y share the same platform and thus track parts on the 3 eventually make it to the Y. What it really says is that the platform is very very good on the track hence all the track oriented parts. If the Y was a *sugar* platform, no one would make proper parts for it.

For ex. ripping off lap records...

‘Daily driver’ Tesla Model Y achieves near-supercar lap times around Laguna Seca

One of the best things about Tesla’s electric cars is the fact that they could transition from being practical family haulers to high-performance vehicles without any effort at all. Take the Tesla Model Y, for example. Just recently, a Model Y with Unplugged Performance parts achieved...

www.teslarati.com

 

[sleepydoc]

This is false equivalence.

The Model 3 and Y share the same platform and thus track parts on the 3 eventually make it to the Y. What it really says is that the platform is very very good on the track hence all the track oriented parts. If the Y was a *sugar* platform, no one would make proper parts for it.

For ex. ripping off lap records...

‘Daily driver’ Tesla Model Y achieves near-supercar lap times around Laguna Seca

One of the best things about Tesla’s electric cars is the fact that they could transition from being practical family haulers to high-performance vehicles without any effort at all. Take the Tesla Model Y, for example. Just recently, a Model Y with Unplugged Performance parts achieved...

www.teslarati.com

the platform is fine, the suspension is not.

 

[WhiteWi]

Objective. It harsh for you and it’s just fine for others

 

[chinney]

Thank you for the reasoned response and I find your points fair and relevant.

I have 2 EV deposits currently (CT for me & Lyriq for my wife) but I'll admit those are really just to get in line as I work out what features matter to me, and which ones do not, and actually pick the EV I'd like to buy first.

The Lyriq really is a very good fit for my wife & as the family run around car, and if it does what it's supposed to do, I suspect it offers the most value by a landslide. An Insideevs editor & current Tesla owner offered the same opinion having spent time with the Lyriq.

If I was able to buy a new M3LR for what you likely paid for yours brand new back around 2019, it would be a much easier decision to choose the M3P as a personal run around car. In the meantime I've immersed myself in reviews and tech comparisons to try and make the most educated decision. It's a world were real world test drives are virtually non-existent after all.it

I definitely benefitted from a reduced price for my Model 3 compared with the prices now. Actually, when I took delivery in May 2020 prices had bottomed out because of the initial effects of the pandemic and Tesla gave me a significant rebate on the purchase price that I had agreed to in February. I did not negotiate for that - Tesla just told me that they were doing it, and sent me a cheque. I find the prices now to be quite high. That said, Tesla is selling them at that price as fast as it can make them, so that's what the market will bear, for now. However, with more and better competition, I expect that Tesla eventually will have to find a way to sell for less. I think that would be a good thing - I look forward to EVs in general becoming more reasonably priced.