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Ioniq 5 vs Model Y

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Tesla never touched this market which traditionally was dominated by the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt. Now this space is getting even crowded. Tesla should not touch this market with a ten-foot pole until they bring to the market a product that’s clearly superior, the same way they have dominated the high-end market since the beginning.
Tesla started at the high end with the S and X then made a move to the middle with the 3. Pricing is difficult right now, but with the price increases, the 3 and the Y are have moved to the upper middle or upper end. The problem is at this price point, people rightfully expect more. Tesla’s interiors are not luxury, standard features like TACC have bugs (phantom braking) and they’re missing features like blind spot monitoring and cross traffic monitoring that are standard at this price point. I don’t know about the 3, but the Y’s suspension sucks and it rides more like a cheap Civic Si than a $70-80k car. Autopilot has been one of Tesla’s killer features but similar capabilities are now available in many other brands. FSD has been promised for years and is finally in limited beta release but at the current rate is still at least a few years away.

Essentially, they have a high priced car that lacks parity in features and quality with other similarly priced cars, or even cars priced $10-20k less. Tesla earned their reputation early on. My fear is they are going to do like BlackBerry did and ride their reputation too long while either being oblivious or in denial about the competition. If this happens they end up losing their brand value and it’s all downhill.
 
Agree with your list. i5 front is really big. My 2 dogs fit comfortably one on seat the other one on the floor. It’s something I really miss now I’m back to MYP.
Don’t like key fob and don’t miss it at all. Start/stop button is just dumb on EV. Also super frustrating with its implementation of ‘dog mode’ that requires putting car in utility mode and using physical key to lock the door. You can’t use key fob at all once car is turned on. Small things here and there, but the main advantage is price. 17k saving is 17k extra in the pocket, cant beat that.



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Thumbs up for sweet bulldogs. We used to have two too. Chubby definitely looks pissed in MY 😂😂😂
 
Still, you can't just raise prices unless you start offering more too.
Yup, apple has been doing the same for years.
I think that statement needs a bit of a qualification - clearly prices can and will change with inflation as well as changing market conditions. The last 2 years has seen both of these in spades. Apple traditionally increases the capabilities of each successive model while keeping the price the same. A few years ago they did increase the price of their iPhones but this was the first price increase in years. Tesla has increased their prices over the past couple of years but the market has also been facing significant supply issues while at the same time seen major increases in EV popularity and demand. When you have a 6 month waiting period for your product it's probably safe to increase the price.

If you qualify the statement to say 'in a balanced market that is not supply constrained you can't just raise prices relative to the competition unless you start offering more too.' it makes much more sense.
 
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I think that statement needs a bit of a qualification - clearly prices can and will change with inflation as well as changing market conditions. The last 2 years has seen both of these in spades. Apple traditionally increases the capabilities of each successive model while keeping the price the same. A few years ago they did increase the price of their iPhones but this was the first price increase in years. Tesla has increased their prices over the past couple of years but the market has also been facing significant supply issues while at the same time seen major increases in EV popularity and demand. When you have a 6 month waiting period for your product it's probably safe to increase the price.

If you qualify the statement to say 'in a balanced market that is not supply constrained you can't just raise prices relative to the competition unless you start offering more too.' it makes much more sense.

Have you consider other brand of cars? Plenty to choose from now a day.
 
In a way, Tesla's strategy makes sense. The 40-55k market range is starting to get crowded, so sticking with the higher end market gives you more room.

Still, you can't just raise prices unless you start offering more too.

Yes, yes you can. It’s called supply and demand. When demand exceeds supply, you must raise prices. And likewise, when supply exceeds demand, you must lower prices. This is the most basic economics.
 
In a way, Tesla's strategy makes sense. The 40-55k market range is starting to get crowded, so sticking with the higher end market gives you more room.

Still, you can't just raise prices unless you start offering more too.
Agree. As they are raising their prices they are entering territory of true luxury vehicles like BMW and Mercedes who have much better built quality and materials. Their advantage is the dealerships are far more accessible than Tesla service centers.
 
Agree. As they are raising their prices they are entering territory of true luxury vehicles like BMW and Mercedes who have much better built quality and materials. Their advantage is the dealerships are far more accessible than Tesla service centers.
Well, traditional luxury car makers are also raising their prices, you can't buy a decent X5 for under 60K nowadays. MB's latest Electric SUV is well above 100k.
 
Tesla never touched this market which traditionally was dominated by the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt. Now this space is getting even crowded. Tesla should not touch this market with a ten-foot pole until they bring to the market a product that’s clearly superior, the same way they have dominated the high-end market since the beginning.
Originally the Model 3 was supposed to be the reasonably priced Tesla. Not cheap, but still a car that the average car owner could aspire to own. It has not really turned out that way. I really appreciate our Model 3, but I paid more for it than I had anticipated when the Model 3 was announced…and I would have to pay far more for it again if I bought it today.
 
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Agree. As they are raising their prices they are entering territory of true luxury vehicles like BMW and Mercedes who have much better built quality and materials. Their advantage is the dealerships are far more accessible than Tesla service centers.
Wasn't Tesla always positioning itself against BMW and MB? Like, M3 was taking customers away from 3-series BMW. I don't really know what you mean by dealership advantage of BMW and MB over Tesla. These days, it isn't hard to find a Tesla SC pretty much anywhere, even in Oklahoma.
 
Wasn't Tesla always positioning itself against BMW and MB? Like, M3 was taking customers away from 3-series BMW. I don't really know what you mean by dealership advantage of BMW and MB over Tesla. These days, it isn't hard to find a Tesla SC pretty much anywhere, even in Oklahoma.
Maybe, but that is not the way that I interpreted the way that Tesla was positioning the vehicle at the time of early marketing of the Model 3 (i.e., around the time of the unveiling and opening of pre-orders in March 2016). There was a lot of talk about the $35,000 base price. That piqued my interest and I was one of the early pre-order customers, although for reasons unconnected with Tesla I did not go ahead with the actual purchase until 2020. By that time, I did realize that the Model 3 was more positioned as akin to a BMW. I still decided to proceed with the purchase, and I am glad that I did, but I am not sure that I could afford it at today's Model 3 price.

On a more general level, I do worry that the high price of EVs generally is going to slow down their adoption among the general population. And getting back to the main topic of this thread, I am at least somewhat impressed with the price of the Ioniq. It is still pricey, and especially so if dealers add premiums, but there is some suggestion that Hyundai are not trying to compete in the luxury segment with the Ioniq, but more in the general vehicle category.
 
Maybe, but that is not the way that I interpreted the way that Tesla was positioning the vehicle at the time of early marketing of the Model 3 (i.e., around the time of the unveiling and opening of pre-orders in March 2016). There was a lot of talk about the $35,000 base price. That piqued my interest and I was one of the early pre-order customers, although for reasons unconnected with Tesla I did not go ahead with the actual purchase until 2020. By that time, I did realize that the Model 3 was more positioned as akin to a BMW. I still decided to proceed with the purchase, and I am glad that I did, but I am not sure that I could afford it at today's Model 3 price.

On a more general level, I do worry that the high price of EVs generally is going to slow down their adoption among the general population. And getting back to the main topic of this thread, I am at least somewhat impressed with the price of the Ioniq. It is still pricey, and especially so if dealers add premiums, but there is some suggestion that Hyundai are not trying to compete in the luxury segment with the Ioniq, but more in the general vehicle category.

Ioniq and EV6 feel just as premium as Tesla driving them around. If they were the same price, I could see myself buying a Tesla but given the growing price discrepancy, its no longer the value it once was. I think the Model 3 pricing is dictated by demand but should change once things stabilize in the future (who knows when that will beJ).

Remember, the Bolt is now a mid $20k car and gives you over 200 miles of range so the low end is surfacing. Tesla just won't be in that segment which is fine. I'm happy the brand isn't diluted even more.
 
It will all come down to the brand ecosystem type thing just like Apple product. Even if Samsung Galaxy or other android phones have better performance, camera and cheaper options, Apple users will not switch to other brand because they are already used to the Apple's ecosystem, UI, and convenience, etc. But this doesn't apply for those who just want any EV and cars in general for them is just a transportation tool that take them from point A to B. They will choose based on the price and all the advertised "features" on the paper regardless of the actual level of performance of those "features".
 
Wasn't Tesla always positioning itself against BMW and MB? Like, M3 was taking customers away from 3-series BMW. I don't really know what you mean by dealership advantage of BMW and MB over Tesla. These days, it isn't hard to find a Tesla SC pretty much anywhere, even in Oklahoma.
I always saw the 3 series as the direct competitor. It used to be that the 3 was a little cheaper and a little faster. Now a base 3 series has an MSRP of 42,300 and 0-60 of 5.6 seconds, while the Model 3 starts at $46,990 and 5.8 seconds. I'd still take the Model 3, but it isn't the tremendous value that it once was in that comparison.
 
I always saw the 3 series as the direct competitor. It used to be that the 3 was a little cheaper and a little faster. Now a base 3 series has an MSRP of 42,300 and 0-60 of 5.6 seconds, while the Model 3 starts at $46,990 and 5.8 seconds. I'd still take the Model 3, but it isn't the tremendous value that it once was in that comparison.
BMW will cost you about as much as Tesla when you add heated seats and some form of advanced cruise control. Personally, every time I tried a BMW, I didn't like how it drives, even on a German Autobahn. The 3 series also feels tiny, Civic-ish, to me. I was surprised by the size of Tesla Model 3 perhaps due to its openness. It's more like some MBs. I guess BMWs and Volvo's are just not mine, too claustrophobic. Audi, BMW, MB, Lexus, when I visit their dealerships they sounded way to arrogant and privileged, I am sorry, don't want to be a member of the old white boys club even if I am an old white boy.
 
I think the Genesis GV60 and Cadillac Lyriq are direct competitors to the Model Y.

The Ioniq 5 and EV6 cut some corners. The audio even on the top trim is just meh (I'd say the same about my top trim $51K Telluride). The range is less. The efficiency worse too. Cargo space is less. Weaker acceleration/performance. The infotainment is a generation behind. And I found the Ioniq 5 Limited AWD seats rather painful... actually I have the same problem with the Telluride and have to use a cushion.

Now the Lyriq and GV60 seem to have fewer corners cut. The GV60 has fingerprint and facial recognition, real premium audio, equal performance (GV60 Advanced is MYP like), etc.
 
I think the Genesis GV60 and Cadillac Lyriq are direct competitors to the Model Y.

The Ioniq 5 and EV6 cut some corners. The audio even on the top trim is just meh (I'd say the same about my top trim $51K Telluride). The range is less. The efficiency worse too. Cargo space is less. Weaker acceleration/performance. The infotainment is a generation behind. And I found the Ioniq 5 Limited AWD seats rather painful... actually I have the same problem with the Telluride and have to use a cushion.

Now the Lyriq and GV60 seem to have fewer corners cut. The GV60 has fingerprint and facial recognition, real premium audio, equal performance (GV60 Advanced is MYP like), etc.

You may need to adjust your seat better. I have santa fe and it took me some time to find the perfect position. Turns out I was sitting too far back and it was causing discomfort in my tailbone.

Range on i5 and ev6 should match MY, Tesla reports better range than actual range vs Hyundai/Kia usually match or get better range than advertised. GV60 advertised range is less than I5/EV60/MY though.