iPhone app

[tomsax]

Why would it be less arduous? Apps on the iPhone are not hard to use at all. In fact, Nissan and GM's apps are pretty much the same on both platforms, and I suspect Tesla would be no different.

I interpret Excimer's post to mean it's less arduous to create an Android app than an iPhone app. That's totally false for me: I already have experience building iPhone apps and much prefer programming in Objective-C to programming in Java. Of course an Android developer would likely have the opposite opinion, so I don't see much value to saying one's easier than the other.

 

[dsm363]

Tom: Have you or other people with programming experience tried contacting Tesla to find out if the hold-up is technical or financial? I wasn't sure if an outside programming effort was possible or not (i.e. if they would release the technical information you would need to make the product you want). Thanks.

Dave

 

[tomsax]

Dave,

My impression is that the holdup is that Tesla is resource constrained. They are focusing their efforts on making Model S a success, so any resources spent on any other effort are a distraction from the product that is going to determine their medium term success as a company.

Still, Tesla spent time and effort on redesigning the front end of the Roadster. I'd much rather they would have spent that effort on creating a web service to allow owners to talk to their car through the cell modem, but they don't ask for my opinion on these matters.

Scott451's post earlier in this thread makes it pretty clear that a homebrew solution is possible. It's tempting to say it would be easier for Tesla to do it in in house, but the quality bar for a Tesla solution would be higher, as would the need for really solid network security. I remain interested in finding a way to do it ourselves as Tesla has made it pretty clear they have no interest in providing this service for 2008 Roadsters which lack the built in cell modem.

 

[vfx]

Obviously some new fiberglass pieces are tapping the resources of a different dept than a web service would. I believe having a flashy new front end from Franz goes to selling more new model cars more than some handheld trickery.

I still want it though!

 

[doug]

This has come up a few times before. Specifically here and more generally in this thread. I agree with Tom and Eric that Tesla may be looking at this as more of a ROI issue. But with all the other EVs coming out with nice polished remote apps, it would be nice to at least have a web interface if Tesla wants to retain a reputation of being high tech.

 

[dsm363]

This has come up a few times before. Specifically here and more generally in this thread. I agree with Tom and Eric that Tesla may be looking at this as more of a ROI issue. But with all the other EVs coming out with nice polished remote apps, it would be nice to at least have a web interface if Tesla wants to retain a reputation of being high tech.

I agree. It's a PR thing in my view. For a car this expensive, they could probably even get away with charging $50 for the app to fund the project or something.

 

[TEG]

Obviously some new fiberglass pieces are tapping the resources of a different dept than a web service would.

Fiberglass? Is there any in a Roadster?
I would have assumed the new front pieces are urethane and plastic...

 

[vfx]

Fiberglass? Is there any in a Roadster?
I would have assumed the new front pieces are urethane and plastic...

oops! ​

 

[tomsax]

The ChargePoint network provides a solution for one of the smart phone feature requests: instant notification by text message when a charge is either interrupted or completes normally. I tried it out yesterday and it was a great user experience.

The full story here:

An End to the Dark Ages of EV Charging

 

[vfx]

New Microsoft Press release.

Microsoft Drives the Future of In-Vehicle Infotainment

Release of Windows Embedded Automotive 7 gives car makers and suppliers the tools, technology and flexibility to transform the in-car experience.

DETROIT, Oct. 19 /PRNewswire/ -- Today at the SAE Convergence 2010 Conference and Exhibition, Microsoft Corp. announced the availability of Windows Embedded Automotive 7 to select car makers and suppliers in the automotive industry. Designed to support the development of new infotainment systems, Windows Embedded Automotive 7 is an industry-leading platform providing integrated services for communication, entertainment, navigation and information for the mass market.

With Windows Embedded Automotive 7, car makers and suppliers have access to Microsoft's latest tools and technology, as well as a worldwide partner ecosystem, which allows them to quickly create in-vehicle experiences that are easier to use and more engaging for drivers and passengers. Key features include speech commands, touch input, hands-free Bluetooth phone communications, advanced dashboard systems for access to music, maps, third-party apps and navigation, and streamlined connectivity with other devices.

"Microsoft deeply understands that technology collaboration is paramount to the evolution of integrated, in-vehicle infotainment systems," said Kevin Dallas, general manager of the Windows Embedded Business Unit at Microsoft. "We are excited to create new opportunities with Windows Embedded Automotive 7 working with our broad ecosystem of partners to bring the best in entertainment and productivity solutions to drivers and passengers around the world."

Additional Windows Embedded Automotive 7 features include the following:

Silverlight for Windows Embedded. Silverlight for Windows Embedded gives car makers the ability to quickly create rich device user experiences with engaging 2-D and 3-D graphics by using a familiar Microsoft technology and taking advantage of a large ecosystem of Microsoft Silverlight designers. Experiences built in Silverlight for Windows Embedded can be refined rapidly on the desktop and deployed unchanged to the target device facilitating flawless delivery from designer to developer.

Microsoft Tellme speech technology. Microsoft Tellme speech technology powers simple and hands-free system commands such as allowing the entire interface to be driven through speech. In addition, new support for SMS reply by voice allows text message replies to be constructed by speech. Windows Embedded Automotive 7 also supports eight languages: U.S. English, U.K. English, German, Mexican Spanish, Continental Spanish, Canadian French, Continental French and Korean.

Next-generation automotive system tools. New tools for developers support the stable integration of advanced, high-performance, third-party systems and include improved test modules with easy-to-use product engineering guidelines to help simplify the development process, increase reliability and speed time to market.

"Consumers are increasingly demanding access to new multimedia content, productivity solutions, and connected services for entertainment and communication from their in-vehicle system, similar to what they expect from their other devices," said Thilo Koslowski, vice president in the Industry Advisory Service Manufacturing group at Gartner Inc. "To build and deploy compelling in-vehicle infotainment system, experienced technology partners, car makers and suppliers must come together. The result of these collaborations turn the automobile into a seamless extension of the digital lifestyle."

Strong Partnerships and Momentum for the Road Ahead

Drivers and passengers today can experience Windows Embedded Automotive in more than 80 vehicle models worldwide through solutions from partners including Ford Motor Co., Kia Motors Corp., Fiat Group Automobiles S.p.A., Nissan Motor Co. Ltd., Paccar Inc., and Alpine Electronics Inc. Highlights include the following:

Ford goes global with SYNC. This month, Ford announced that MyFord Touch, the second generation of Ford SYNC, built on the Windows Embedded Automotive platform, is launching in Europe and Asia early next year. SYNC has been installed in more than 2.5 million vehicles in North America since its launch in 2007.

Nissan LEAF information hub. Today, Microsoft also announced that the 2011 Nissan LEAF touchscreen information hub is powered by Windows Embedded Automotive technology, providing drivers and passengers with a navigation system and electricity charging station locator. It also shares power consumption monitoring information with drivers, and enables easy in-car climate monitoring.

Fiat. Fiat Group Automobiles is bringing the Fiat 500 to the North American market in 2010. The 500 includes Fiat's Blue&Me technology, powered by Microsoft, a media gateway that integrates mobile phones and digital music players into audio system and controls of the car, allowing voice control of these devices by the driver.

Alpine. Alpine Electronics of America Inc. delivered advanced in-vehicle navigation systems, powered by Windows Embedded Automotive, to car manufacturers, including satellite-guided, turn-by-turn directions and useful features, such as voice-guided controls, and information on more than 7 million points of interest.

More information is available from the Windows Embedded Newsroom at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/embedded/default.aspx or by following MSFTWEB on Twitter for updates.

More information on the capabilities and features of Windows Embedded Automotive 7, as well as the entire Windows Embedded portfolio of platforms and technologies, is available at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsembedded.

Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) is the worldwide leader in software, services and solutions that help people and businesses realize their full potential.

SOURCE Microsoft Corp.

 

[dsm363]

New Microsoft Press release.

Alpine is listed. That's interesting. I wonder if the Alpine unit in the electronics package for the Roadster 2.5 can be upgraded since it just came out this year.

 

[Fuzzylogic]

@ scott451
I want to build a simple/cheap open source device that let's me get charging information from the roadster.

I'm planning on using a telit GSM modem, and use it to send SMS status messages to my phone when the charge state changes, or on request by SMS.
A PIC microcontroller (18F2580) will talk to the modem (that's easy), and the CAN bus (that might be hard).

Just above the accelerator pedal, i found a ODB2 connector, which has the red and blue CAN wires.
I'm using the CANUSB interface to a laptop, so i can log the CAN bus data. But i don't seem to get any data from this bus.

Any idea what i'm doing wrong? do i really have to use the connector at the back of the VDS to get to the correct signals?
And if so, what's the easiest way to get to the back of the VDS?

 

[dwegmull]

@ scott451
I want to build a simple/cheap open source device that let's me get charging information from the roadster.

I'm planning on using a telit GSM modem, and use it to send SMS status messages to my phone when the charge state changes, or on request by SMS.
A PIC microcontroller (18F2580) will talk to the modem (that's easy), and the CAN bus (that might be hard).

Just above the accelerator pedal, i found a ODB2 connector, which has the red and blue CAN wires.
I'm using the CANUSB interface to a laptop, so i can log the CAN bus data. But i don't seem to get any data from this bus.

Any idea what i'm doing wrong? do i really have to use the connector at the back of the VDS to get to the correct signals?
And if so, what's the easiest way to get to the back of the VDS?

I have been thinking along the same lines. However, I was thinking of sensing the current flowing into the car by installing a hall effect sensor along one of the wires inside the plug of an MC240 or maybe as part of an adapter between the Tesla plug and a J1772. The device could have a small battery to keep it going even if the power supply to the car is interrupted (circuit breaker tripped...). It could detect the difference between the car being done charging (no current, but supply voltage still present) and the charge being interrupted due to a lack of supply (both current and voltage down to 0).

 

[scott451]

@ scott451
I'm planning on using a telit GSM modem, and use it to send SMS status messages to my phone when the charge state changes, or on request by SMS.
A PIC micro controller (18F2580) will talk to the modem (that's easy), and the CAN bus (that might be hard).

I'm using a $25 GPRS modem from Deal extreme and a T-mobile pay as you go account to send SMS messages to my phone. It's based on the BENQ M32 module so it's an easy mod to bypass the internal PL2303 usb-rs232 chip and get an 3.3V rs232 interface to connect to a PIC. I'm currently using the LPC1768. It's the same price as the CAN based PIC and it has a lot more memory. Plus it is fully supported by the keil tools.

I've built two variants, one used to plug the GPRS modem directly into the USB slot of the tesla. This worked but had a number of problems: 1) The tesla USB port doesn't supply enough current to run the GPSR modem, so I had to add a secondary supply; 2) the 2.6.11 kernel does not recognize the GPRS modem until you change the USB PID from 0609 to 2303; 3) On my last firmware upgrade. Tesla removed shell access, so there is no real easy way to launch my app. (it was the best solution for me because I would plug in the GPRS modem whenever i needed to monitor a charge); 4) setting up a cross-compiling environment for an out dated kernel is a pain! (I wanted to show off this version to the other owners at the 2010 roaster rally in June, but there was no cellphone coverage at the Malabu estate

The second one uses a LPC1768 board I got from ebay. It comes with the keil tools and has some CAN examples. The examples don't work if you set the baud rate to 1Mbit. To get 1Mbit to work, you need to change the CAN1, CAN2 and FILT clocks from div 4 to div2. PM if anyone needs help getting it to work..

Just above the accelerator pedal, i found a ODB2 connector, which has the red and blue CAN wires.
I'm using the CANUSB interface to a laptop, so i can log the CAN bus data. But i don't seem to get any data from this bus.

Wrong port. The OBD is CAN3. The messages you want are on CAN0. This bus is easily found at the back of the VDS. On my 2008, it's just two screws to get to it. The 2010 is a pain to get to as you have to remove the two big hex bolts under the dash that hold on the center console and then remove it.

There is another connector which has all of the major CAN busses used in the car. It's located on the passenger side and it looks like this:

The CAN0 is on two right most pins. CAN3 is on the left most, middle bottom are pwr/gnd. Do not connect anything to CAN1 and CAN2. These are the battery and PEM buses. You could do serious, permanent damage to your car by sending bad data on these busses. The CAN0 has important information on it too. So your CAN0 bus applications should only MONITOR the various messages not send them.

Good luck. keep posting your progress and I'll help out where I can...

Speaking of progress:

Tom, Based on information I've posted, I would have expected Cathy to port her RAV4-EView to the tesla... Any updates?

 

[tomsax]

Tom, Based on information I've posted, I would have expected Cathy to port her RAV4-EView to the tesla... Any updates?

RAV4-EView doesn't really apply here, it gives the RAV4-EV functionality similar to what the Roadster already has on the VDS. The RAV4 doesn't use CAN, it uses a single-wire serial protocol, so the comms are totally different. I would also expect the messages to be totally different. Other than the code she's written to draw stuff on the screen, very little of what Cathy has done in either hardware or software for RAV4-EView would be useful in the Roadster.

I'm much more interested in a gizmo to send charging status over SMS, and glad to see people are working on it.

 

[dsm363]

I don't have the technical knowledge about this that you guys do so I appreciate you looking into it. I tried to do my part and wrote a personal letter (snail mail) to Elon Musk asking for this iPhone/mobile phone app feature request and the reasons why I thought it was important so we'll see if that helps.

 

[Fuzzylogic]

I'm using a $25 GPRS modem from Deal extreme and a T-mobile pay as you go account to send SMS messages to my phone. It's based on the BENQ M32 module so it's an easy mod to bypass the internal PL2303 usb-rs232 chip and get an 3.3V rs232 interface to connect to a PIC.

Ordered! That's very cheap. For now i will use the Telit modem , as i already have it, and it had been collecting dust for atleast 5 years now... Time to put it to good use.
Once i get the Deal extreme modems in, i will give them a try too.

I'm currently using the LPC1768. It's the same price as the CAN based PIC and it has a lot more memory.

Nice IC, I did see some mbed kits based on that chip. I'll stick with the PIC for now, i don't think i will run out of memory anytime soon.

Wrong port. The OBD is CAN3. The messages you want are on CAN0.
There is another connector which has all of the major CAN busses used in the car. It's located on the passenger side.

This is very good info, Thanks a lot! I noticed that grey connector on the passenger side, but didn't know it contained all the CAN buses. Great!
Ofcourse, i will only monitor the data on CAN0, there's a listen only mode on the PIC, so i will use that.

 

[Fuzzylogic]

OK my first prototype of the Roadster Charge Monitor (RCM) is working.
I decided to go for the GPRS modem from Deal extreme, as it is much smaller then the Telit modem.

Status messages from the car :smile:

When i call the RCM from my phone (just let it ring for two times, then hang up), it recognizes my phone number, and then sends a status SMS back to my phone.
As you can see i requested several status updates while the car was charging.
At 01:17 i stopped the charging, by sliding the switch on the charge plug. Then a SMS is immediately sent to alert me that the charging was stopped.

Quarter and 2 euro coin for comparison.

Top board is the GSM module, bottom board contains PIC chip, and CAN IC

The GSM module, needs to be modified a bit to have access to the serial port of the modem, and i removed the USB connector too. To let it fit the box.

I'll post the source and schematic in a few days, after i cleaned up the code a bit.

Thanks again scott451, for your CAN bus analysis. Without it, i would have never build this.
btw, do you know if the +12V on the CAN connector can supply the power needed to run the GSM modem?

 

[scott451]

OK my first prototype of the Roadster Charge Monitor (RCM) is working.
I decided to go for the GPRS modem from Deal extreme, as it is much smaller then the Telit modem.

Yeah. The Deal extreme modem is much simpler

When i call the RCM from my phone (just let it ring for two times, then hang up), it recognizes my phone number, and then sends a status SMS back to my phone.
As you can see i requested several status updates while the car was charging.
At 01:17 i stopped the charging, by sliding the switch on the charge plug. Then a SMS is immediately sent to alert me that the charging was stopped.

You might want to note what the pilot current is when charging stopped. If it is non-zero, then the charging was stopped by the VMS or pushing the stop button on the VDS. If the pilot current was zero, it could have been a popped breaker or sliding the switch. Here's the messages I get from my module:

The GSM module, needs to be modified a bit to have access to the serial port of the modem, and i removed the USB connector too. To let it fit the box.

I'll post the source and schematic in a few days, after i cleaned up the code a bit.

Great work!!! I like the case, where is it from?

Thanks again scott451, for your CAN bus analysis. Without it, i would have never [been able to] build this. btw, do you know if the +12V on the CAN connector can supply the power needed to run the GSM modem?

AFAIK you can run your GSM modem off the connector +12V. The nice thing about using the +12V on the CAN connector is that it does not go off when the car sleeps. The +12V cigarette lighter outlet is off when the car sleeps.

 

[tomsax]

OK my first prototype of the Roadster Charge Monitor (RCM) is working.

Nice work! Can't wait to see the details.