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IPv6 address for TMC

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by widodh, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Is it possible that TMC becomes dual stack and supports both IPv4 and IPv6?

    The rollout of IPv6 is going pretty fast in Europe and Asia due to the lack of IPv4 which is still available.

    Since we are working on the future of transportation we might also want to work on the future of the internet!

    Having IPv6 connectivity for TMC would allow me to do almost all my daily browsing over IPv6 :)
     
  2. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    Shall we take a bet on what come first?

    A Tesla with a 1000 mile range that will charge in 5 minutes, or worldwide adoption of IPv6?
     
  3. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    IPv6 :)

    It might not be an issue in the states, but in Europe and Asia we are out of IPv4, simple is that. My company just got it's last /21 and now the party is over.

    The adoption of IPv6 is going a lot faster here then in the states.
     
  4. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    You might want to get more specific on the underlined. Some people are still running Win 3.1 and Win95. Heck I had VMs running last year for each of them.
     
  5. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    Ok, more specific:

    At the time when you can't reach google.com using IPv4 anymore (NAT doesn't count).
     
  6. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Our current forum software doesn't support IPv6. We'll see if they ever manage to incorporate it.
     
  7. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    That will take a very long time. But how long will it take before you are behind a carrier grade NAT? Well, you are with your mobile phone. Even Comcast is experimenting with it.

    I hate NAT, I really do and I love IPv6.

    All I'm asking is for that AAAA-record for TMC :)

    I host multiple vBulleting forums which run just fine over IPv6?
     
  8. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    As far as I remember you could do it with a plugin, but the software doesn't do it natively.
     
  9. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    #9 FlasherZ, Aug 31, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2013
    Google.com will speak native IPv4 for a very, very long time.

    I think you should expect to see many, many sites that exist only on IPv4 for a while and are accessible via protocol translation services from IPv6-only sites, just as you're likely to see v4-to-v6 protocol translation for some new services that come online offered on IPv6.

    But I've been through these debate wars before, and having been a central part of a handful of them and the various adoption discussions, there are lots of ways it can be done and they're all valid. Some people will hang onto IPv4 as long as they can, and they'll be reachable by both worlds (eventually). Some people will immediately go IPv6-only, and will be reachable by both worlds (eventually). Others will dual-stack, and be reachable by both worlds.

    Not sure the bulletin software needs to support IPv6 (although it may do weird stuff with IP addresses). The web server / PHP combo that TMC runs can certainly speak IPv6 (assuming the Server: header is correct, 2.2.15/5.3.3). My guess is that it could be made to work.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ...and yet if you can already reach TMC, there's very little value in its AAAA record, other than as a demonstration. As someone who has regularly dealt with ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC to get address space (and the custodian of roughly a /12 of IPv4 address space) and one of the core organizations of the 6bone since the beginning, I do have a desire to see IPv6 adopted to relieve the mess. However, the real value is in the continued growth of the Internet of Everything, reaching rome geographies or verticals who must go IPv6. And even then, CGNAT's will work just fine for some time to come.

    I could talk forever about this topic, but don't really have the time. :)
     
  10. Olen

    Olen Member

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    The question is not "When can't you reach google.com using IPv4?", the question is "When are users starting to have a problem obtaining IPv4 addresses?".
    Ofcourse any service that has IPv4 today will probably support IPv4 "forever". But there are no more new IPv4 addresses available in Asia and the Pacific, Europe, Russia and Middle East. So there _will_ eventually be users in these areas who might either not get IPv4, or get a seriousy degraded IPv4 connection (think double/triple NAT and so on).
    Ifcourse this is by no means critical today, but why not set it up today, and make sure you iron out any issues before you reach a critical mass of users actually depending on IPv6.
     
  11. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    +10

    The situation in the US is different, they have enough IPv4 available, but here in Europe we are running out.

    I have an ISP in the Netherlands and we have just 1200 IPs left before we run out of IPv4 and then the party is over, no more IPv4 for us.

    So all our services run dual-stack, which means IPv4 and IPv6 connectivity for every website.

    It would be nice if TMC would support IPv6 just to make it future proof.
     
  12. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    So I was wondering, how's the status of this? Can we try to pilot with IPv6 for TMC?
     
  13. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    There's no support for IPv6 in our current forum software, and I wouldn't expect it any time soon. So it may have to wait until we change platforms.
     
  14. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    It's unlikely it's the forum software... it is more likely that the underlying host and network doesn't have support. I see TMC is hosted on Reynwood Communications.

    In the U.S. it is still uncommon for many hosting providers to provide IPv6 support. It will undoubtedly come at some point, but when I switch off my IPv4 and use only IPv6, very few of the sites I use on a daily basis supports IPv6. At least Google and Apple's main websites do. Even Cisco and Juniper aren't fully dual stacked (main pages work, but sub sites often don't).
     
  15. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    IPv4 will be with us for many years. The transition speed makes your average snail look like an F1 car.
     
  16. Parzival

    Parzival Member

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    It's nearly impossible to get IPv6 with most hosting companies in the US. In fact, I can only think of two companies right now (Softlayer & Linode) that offer it. The situation is slowly improving, but for the most part it's not available. You can use tunnels, but then your IPv6 visitors have a degraded experience. In Europe, a number of consumer ISP's are now using NAT to deliver IPv4 to their customers. For a site like TMC, there is really no downside to IPv4 NAT.

    IPv4 will be around for decades more. Hell, I still have to deal with X.25. I'm eager to see more sites adopt IPv6, but I think we're years away from seeing any significant adoption, especially while the big cloud providers (Amazon, Google, Azure, etc.) ignore IPv6.
     
  17. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Weird. Since I host multiple vBulletin forums which all work over IPv6.

    It's the chicken and egg problem all over again.

    If everybody says: Well, IPv4 will keep working for ME, so I don't need IPv6, then nothing will happen.

    In Belgium currently 15% of all users have IPv6 and the number keeps growing. Asia is even bigger!

    And running IPv6 is not difficult. I run a datacenter with thousands of servers, all running Dual Stack. Not a problem at all.
     
  18. Parzival

    Parzival Member

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    It is growing in the US also. Comcast, a much-maligned broadband juggernaut, has been aggressively rolling it out to residential customers. Verizon and T-Mobile have been doing the same for mobile users. Thanks to the efforts of these companies, a bulk of global IPv6 traffic now comes from the US.

    Facebook and Google are almost fully IPv6 enabled. Here's an interesting stack of slides from Facebook illustrating some of the challenges they had deploying IPv6:

    Dropbox - WorldIPv6Congress-IPv6_LH v2.pdf
     
  19. Olen

    Olen Member

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    Sure Facebook had their share of issues, but considering the size of their infrastructure, seeing the last couple of slides in that presentation is impressive and important.
    Again, the main problem is not that _you_ won't have enough IPv4 addresses to run a forum. The issue is that Europe, Asia and Latin America is out of IPv4, and sooner or later there will be IPv6 only _users_ out there.
    Or users with a seriously degraded IPv4 connection (double or triple NAT, with its share of performance issues and other problems).
    Any serious hosting provider should really see this coming, and get their act together and enable IPv6 sooner rather than later.
     
  20. Parzival

    Parzival Member

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    IPv6-only users will be able to access IPv4-only sites using technologies such as 464XLAT. This is happening already on the US T-Mobile network with Android 4.4... And double/triple NAT, yeah, that sucks, but it won't stop you from browsing the web, either.

    No ISP is dumb enough to not bridge the gap to the legacy Internet, and that's not going to change for a _very_ long time.

    I'm not disagreeing with the premise that people shouldn't move to IPv6 as soon as possible. But until the foundation is ready and the hosting companies get there, there's really nothing that can be done.

    I still visit websites that have Flash-based intro pages, animated GIFs, and unwanted background music. First things first! At least I haven't seen an animated "under construction" image in a while. :D
     

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