IRS weighs in on tax rebate, mostly bad news for Model Y

[exxxviii]

So, nothing.

Hyundai cross traffic is pretty awesome. If you are backing out of a parking space, it will beep at you and then hit the brakes before you hit another car. My driveway has a blind spot because of vegetation; it sees cars that I can’t see and hits the brakes. This is the one feature I was shocked to learn is missing from my Tesla, because of Tesla’s focus on camera AI processing.

 

[K1Woods]

Nothing.

Official Hyundai IONIQ 6 2022 safety rating

Euro NCAP safety rating of the Hyundai IONIQ 6 2022: detailed results, crash test pictures, videos and comments from experts

www.euroncap.com

Official Tesla Model Y 2022 safety rating

Euro NCAP safety rating of the Tesla Model Y 2022: detailed results, crash test pictures, videos and comments from experts

www.euroncap.com

safe but it looks ridiculous.....no thanks

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

Interesting. That does seem MUCH safer. I’ve heard a crazy amount of people die each year getting hit in parking lots while backing up…

See my next post....Much better description

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

Update: I found a better description of the 2023 Ioniq 6


Hyundai will offer a range of active safety features on the Ioniq 6, with the slim black bar in the nose containing most of the sensors and cameras. It'll have Highway Driving Assist 2, an adaptive cruise control system with steering assist and automatic lane changes that can learn your driving style and mimic how you drive. Other features include forward-collision warning with pedestrian and cyclist detection, lane-keeping assist, lane-departure warning, blind-spot monitoring with camera views, rear cross-traffic assist and automatic high beams. The Ioniq 6 also is available with a 360-degree camera setup and a new version of Remote Smart Park that can park diagonally, parallel or perpendicular without anyone in the car. Sadly, the digital cameras that replace traditional side mirrors won't be available in the US.

 

[flgatorfan]

Here's a snippet of 1 feature

The production version of the Hyundai Ioniq 6 will get rearview screens positioned at an angle on the corners of the dashboard. In place of conventional mirrors, the Ioniq 6 will have sleek-looking cameras. However, as using such cameras in place of rearview mirrors is not allowed in the US, the US-spec Hyundai Ioniq 6 might miss out on these cool-looking rearview screens. Instead, it will do away with conventional rearview mirrors like the Ioniq 5.

Is this a Hyundai shill thread or a tax rebate thread?

 

[WyoDude]

Is this a Hyundai shill thread or a tax rebate thread?

Hyundai shill thread. They are MUCH safer and look super cool. Beware of buying a doomed Tesla.

 

[Rusty1]

No surprise. This was posted in August.

Is the Model Y an SUV? The government needs to define this better. Here is a piece out of the only government document that speaks to automobile, off road, van, or light pickup. Model Y might slip in with three rows with the back two folding down (a van classification). Model Y meets only one of the off road criteria which I feel defines a real SUV. All the crossovers on the road are just tall hatchbacks.

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.ecfr.gov

View attachment 845429

 

[Snow Drift]

No surprise. This was posted in August.

As discussed on other pages, those requirements are for Non-Passenger Automobiles. That is not a SUV for consumers. The requirements are for a Unimog, HMMVV (Hummer H1), etc. These are off-road work vehicles. Not Ford Explorers.

 

[ucmndd]

As discussed on other pages, those requirements are for Non-Passenger Automobiles. That is not a SUV for consumers. The requirements are for a Unimog, HMMVV (Hummer H1), etc. These are off-road work vehicles. Not Ford Explorers.

Can you help me understand what leads you to believe this? Because the more I read that document the more I think it’s precisely what is being used. I don’t believe your interpretation of “non-passenger automobile” is correct.

Anything with 3 rows qualifies as a van under paragraph A(5)(ii).

5 seat Model Y is 4WD but does not meet the necessary clearances in B(2).

Mach E does not meet the necessary clearances in B(2)

Audi Q5 is 4WD and meets the necessary clearances in B(2), thus qualifies.

ID.4 is the interesting one. Official sources list ground clearance on prior model years at ~6.7 inches. However, informal measurements by people on forums suggest clearance is actually over 8 inches with the exception of a small plastic underbelly protrusion forward of each wheel. I can’t find any official ground clearance measurement for 2023 vehicles yet but I suspect VW made a simple modification to up ground clearance, resulting in 4/5 requirements being met in section 2(B) (only approach angle does not meet the requirements).

If that’s the case then 4WD ID.4 variants meet the SUV requirements.

Assuming the updated ground clearance hunch is correct on the 2023 ID.4, all the available data fits.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

Hyundai shill thread. They are MUCH safer and look super cool. Beware of buying a doomed Tesla.

I'm not a shill. I bought into the Tesla hype many years ago. Now after "Bill Gates No Dates" Elon Musk promises the car falls short of what the Ioniq 6 is capable of. Simple enhancements that are not appearing on Teslas but other less expensive cars says alot

 

[Tha_Ape]

Looks like more orders for the 7 seater! When just using the front and middle rows, looks like the same legroom for the passengers, range is 326 instead of 330 miles, and net cost is +$3000 for the extra seats - $7500 rebate, thus net cost is $4500 less (slightly diminished by the increased sales tax and for the first year not having the rebate until next tax filing).

Buy a model Y, add the rear row seats, leave them folded down forever, and pay $4500 less! Is this a no brainer?

Actually the 7-seater has a little over 1" more leg room in the 2nd row.
According to Tesla's site

 

[qdeathstar]

safe but it looks ridiculous.....no thanks

They look much better in person. Seen one driving by the other day was was impressed.

 

[flgatorfan]

Can you help me understand what leads you to believe this? Because the more I read that document the more I think it’s precisely what is being used. I don’t believe your interpretation of “non-passenger automobile” is correct.

Anything with 3 rows qualifies as a van under paragraph A(5)(ii).

5 seat Model Y is 4WD but does not meet the necessary clearances in B(2).

Mach E does not meet the necessary clearances in B(2)

Audi Q5 is 4WD and meets the necessary clearances in B(2), thus qualifies.

ID.4 is the interesting one. Official sources list ground clearance on prior model years at ~6.7 inches. However, informal measurements by people on forums suggest clearance is actually over 8 inches with the exception of a small plastic underbelly protrusion forward of each wheel. I can’t find any official ground clearance measurement for 2023 vehicles yet but I suspect VW made a simple modification to up ground clearance, resulting in 4/5 requirements being met in section 2(B) (only approach angle does not meet the requirements).

If that’s the case then 4WD ID.4 variants meet the SUV requirements.

Assuming the updated ground clearance hunch is correct on the 2023 ID.4, all the available data fits.

This looks correct to me since the definition of SUV says it is a "light truck" which is noted as being an interchangeable term with "non-passenger vehicle." How silly.

 

[Snow Drift]

Can you help me understand what leads you to believe this? Because the more I read that document the more I think it’s precisely what is being used. I don’t believe your interpretation of “non-passenger automobile” is correct.

Anything with 3 rows qualifies as a van under paragraph A(5)(ii).

5 seat Model Y is 4WD but does not meet the necessary clearances in B(2).

Mach E does not meet the necessary clearances in B(2)

Audi Q5 is 4WD and meets the necessary clearances in B(2), thus qualifies.

ID.4 is the interesting one. Official sources list ground clearance on prior model years at ~6.7 inches. However, informal measurements by people on forums suggest clearance is actually over 8 inches with the exception of a small plastic underbelly protrusion forward of each wheel. I can’t find any official ground clearance measurement for 2023 vehicles yet but I suspect VW made a simple modification to up ground clearance, resulting in 4/5 requirements being met in section 2(B) (only approach angle does not meet the requirements).

If that’s the case then 4WD ID.4 variants meet the SUV requirements.

Assuming the updated ground clearance hunch is correct on the 2023 ID.4, all the available data fits

They aren't talking about personal use vehicles like a Ford Explorer.


"Non-passenger vehicle means any vehicle used primarily to perform a work task while incidentally transporting individuals and their equipment from one location to another location" (Law Insider)

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

They look much better in person. Seen one driving by the other day was was impressed.

How did you see an Ioniq 6 when they won't be available until 1st quarter

 

[ucmndd]

They aren't talking about personal use vehicles like a Ford Explorer.

I understand you believe this, I’m asking for some substantiation as to why. It appears to be an arbitrary distinction you’ve created based on your personal interpretation.

"Non-passenger vehicle means any vehicle used primarily to perform a work task while incidentally transporting individuals and their equipment from one location to another location" (Law Insider)

The code section referenced is clearly speaking to various configurations of vehicles sold to the public intended for use on public roads, not just military vehicles like Humvees and APCs. It mentions things like third row foldable/stowable seats, 10+ passenger vans, and utility vehicles with a less than 6000 pound GVWR. This section of code DEFINES what a non-passenger vehicle is, and makes it pretty darn clear why the currently listed vehicles either do or don’t qualify at the $80k msrp level.

 

[Snow Drift]

I understand you believe this, I’m asking for some substantiation as to why. It appears to be an arbitrary distinction you’ve created based on your personal interpretation.



The code section referenced is clearly speaking to various configurations of vehicles sold to the public intended for use on public roads, not just military vehicles like Humvees and APCs. It mentions things like third row foldable/stowable seats, 10+ passenger vans, and utility vehicles with a less than 6000 pound GVWR. This section of code DEFINES what a non-passenger vehicle is, and makes it pretty darn clear why the currently listed vehicles either do or don’t qualify at the $80k msrp level.

Which of those requirements relates to an ID.4 or a Q5 PHEV?

They are passenger cars. Not non-passenger cars. Their primary purpose is transporting 1-5 people. They are not construction vehicles, unimogs, snow-cats, buses or motorhomes.

 

[SageBrush]

5 seat Model Y is 4WD but does not meet the necessary clearances in B(2).

Very well researched and explained --- thanks.
Model X goes up to 8.1" ground clearance with air suspension. Perhaps a similar suspension on the Model Y is another way for Tesla to make the 'Y' tax credit eligible.

 

[SageBrush]

They are passenger cars.

Because you say so ?

 

[ucmndd]

Which of those requirements relates to an ID.4 or a Q5 PHEV?

They are 4WD, under 6000 pounds GVWR, and meet at least 4 of the 5 clearance requirements in section B(2). Therefore they are non-passenger utility vehicles as defined by this section of code, and eligible for the $80k MSRP limit.