Is $10K too much?

[dckiwi]

The question 'Is Product X worth Y dollars' is best asked of commodities like gasoline, milk, or maybe even mobile phones. A commodity product is one that is produced by a large number of different companies, and there is little to differentiate it other than price.

Tesla is the only company selling this product, so there's nothing to compare it to. Is $10,000 too much to pay for a software upgrade that may (soon) handle most driving tasks for you? I don't know, what other product do you compare it to? It could be a total ripoff, or it could be a bargain. It's kind of like asking whether the SpaceX tickets to orbit the moon are 'too much'. There's no reference point.

Now of course each of us individually can weigh in on whether it's too much, and ultimately the market will decide. But I would say the 'fair market value' of an autonomous upgrade to a consumer vehicle isn't yet known.

 

[dckiwi]

PS it's worth it to me, but that value is VERY subjective. I bought FSD for both my Teslas because I want to experience the evolution of autonomous vehicles (and AI generally). I did NOT buy it because driving is too much of a hassle for me (although I agree it does help for long distance trips).

However, I also have friends who wouldn't pay $100 for it because it's a solution in search of a problem - they want to do their own driving, and they seem (surprisingly) unimpressed with what Tesla FSD can do. The question is, are there enough weirdos like me out there to keep the price at this level

 

[EVNow]

Is $10,000 too much to pay for a software upgrade that may (soon) handle most driving tasks for you? I don't know, what other product do you compare it to? It could be a total ripoff, or it could be a bargain.

There are enterprise software packages that cost $10k (for one license) that do a miniscule amount of work and has miniscule amount of complexity compared to FSD. Companies still buy those because it will be much more expensive to develop those inhouse.

OTOH, a very complex operating system like Linux is essentially free (even Windows for ~$100 feels cheap, that way).

Software is one thing where economies of scale really shines because of almost zero marginal cost.

 

[andysctu]

Ha ha, I'm glad I'm not the only one. That was some good (and not surprising) info you got from the insurance company. I figured they'll treat it like you upgraded the stereo or wheels and take off for age, wear and tear (significantly). Good luck with the argument "But the price keeps going up so it's worth more."

This is a fantasy:

1) In 2020, Car is worth $50K, FSD worth $10K
2) You drive 120,000 miles
3) Five years later, the car is worth $10K, FSD worth $50K (due to price increases)
4) Car totaled and you break even. Not gonna happen.

I've accepted that, for me, there is no rational, sane reason to pay $8K for FSD. I've been working from home for the past two years, so I have no commute. I think the robotaxi idea is silly. (I don't let my wife drink water in my car and yet, I'm going to let it be used by drunken bar-hoppers on a Friday night. Who's going to show them how to open the damn doors? LOL.)

If I made a Pro/Con list, it would look like this:

Cons:
- FSD functionality only incrementally better than AP at significant cost
- Significant opportunity cost
- It's tied to the car, not the owner. If the car is totaled, it's largely unrecoverable
- I don't commute at all any more
- Subscription plan forthcoming. I'll be able to try it or only periodically use it at much lower cost
- No terms and conditions attached. Tesla can delay, change or cancel the program anytime at their discretion.
- It's basically a non-returnable, restricted-use, software license (even Adobe, Oracle, SAP and MS moved to a subscription model).

Pros:
- It's really cool

God help me, I think I'm going to hit the "Add" button on my account.

Same here... all logic and reasoning points me to not get it, but then I remember how cool it was on my test drive to change lanes only using the blinkers...

Time to add upgrade????

 

[andysctu]

I pulled the trigger and added FSD on Tuesday. Drove it around for a couple days and had to intervene more than 50% of the time with NOA and interchanges. Even with the rewrite I just couldn't justify the spend, it just doesn't feel like an 8k let alone 10k incremental increase of value over regular autopilot. I had no intention of putting the car out in the robotaxi fleet if and when that was ready (still feels like quite a few years off at best). So it was always a pure luxury or ease of use upgrade for me. I put in for a refund yesterday morning before the 48 hour time frame expired. App and car reverted back almost immediately. I did notice this morning that the chime on green light was still working. I feel like the 2k price increase shouldn't have happened until the fsd beta was ready and available for everyone. I wonder how many people added in the last week or so and canceled.

Does the green light chime still work after your refund now?

 

[andysctu]

Back to the original topic... I see that Rivian is including their FSD equivalent at no cost because they don’t believe that you should have to pay extra for safety. I doubt the 10k price tag will stick if competitors provide similar capabilities as standard.

Tesla’s safety features are also included with the car (emergency braking / lane assist, etc), outside of FSD

 

[Bednarz42]

Does the green light chime still work after your refund now?

Yea, its still working.

 

[andysctu]

Yea, its still working.

Did you get a full refund? Taxes and everything?

 

[_jmk]

Probability of robotaxi happening in California within the next 5 years: 75%. Probability of it failing miserably and the entire program getting canned for several more years after that: 75%. Probability of robotaxi happening where I live (Finland) during the next 5 years: 20%. Probability of it failing early on and getting suspended 90%. Probability of me ever wanting to operate a robotaxi fleet for Elon with my own cars: 0%.

So, for me it's just a driver assistance feature and extremely expensive one. I will pass, but I will rent it for random trials when available.

 

[Bednarz42]

Did you get a full refund? Taxes and everything?

Yea, full refund with taxes and everything came through in a couple days.

Frankly, I'm glad I did it. Buyer's remorse was setting in immediately, can't imagine what level it would be at if I was sitting here at the end of the year with no wide release of FSD. Current capabilities of "FSD" not even close to being worth 8k let alone 10k imo. Can't imagine future improvements would make me feel whole either. Of course thats just my opinion on the value proposition.

 

[mikes_fsd]

Yea, full refund with taxes and everything came through in a couple days.

Frankly, I'm glad I did it. Buyer's remorse was setting in immediately, can't imagine what level it would be at if I was sitting here at the end of the year with no wide release of FSD.

Good for you.
But please - for our sake - don't start 5 threads per month on how "FSD is too expensive" or "FSD subscription is a rip-off down the road.

Can't imagine future improvements would make me feel whole either.

I've saved a screenshot of this post just in case you change your mind.
Or trash every other thread re FSD with these gems:

$2k price increase was pre mature...not delivering a wider rollout of beta by end of year.

The year is not out yet (although, many do wish it was), wait at least until Jan 1, 2021

 

[Bednarz42]

Good for you.
But please - for our sake - don't start 5 threads per month on how "FSD is too expensive" or "FSD subscription is a rip-off down the road.



I've saved a screenshot of this post just in case you change your mind.
Or trash every other thread re FSD with these gems:


The year is not out yet (although, many do wish it was), wait at least until Jan 1, 2021

Wow...really took these "gems" personal huh? Save away I guess. Yikes

 

[2101Guy]

However, I also have friends who wouldn't pay $100 for it because it's a solution in search of a problem - they want to do their own driving, and they seem (surprisingly) unimpressed with what Tesla FSD can do. The question is, are there enough weirdos like me out there to keep the price at this level

I think those are typically what's known as "haters"

 

[patnshan]

Not to me, it's not. That's why I welcome the sub option if Elon isn't ridiculous with the price.