Is $3.53/w Reasonable for Tesla Panels?

[rfmurphy81]

A few weeks back, I got a cold call from a Tesla Energy advisor that started as a check-in to see how things were with my Tesla products which turned into a discussion of getting panels via Tesla Energy. I decided to hear them out as I was open to getting solar if the price was right.

They priced out a system estimated to offset 97% of my last year's usage at a price of $4.04/w (dividing the kW by the total price). I had previously received a quote from another local solar installer earlier in the year so I mentioned that and sent to the advisor who used that as a catalyst to get me a better rate, what they call their "Best Value Guarantee". When I next spoke to the advisor, the updated quote was a larger system but a lower price per watt that changed down to $3.53/w now. However, in order to finance through Tesla, I have to have a 6 kW system.

Since initially speaking with them on this, I had also put my information into EnergySage and received 4 quotes that vary between $2.78 and $2.90 per watt for various sized systems. I'm still trying to understand what is comparable and what's unique to Tesla to make me go with them, assuming all things being equal.

Is $3.53/w a reasonable price? When I mentioned the lower price per watt from the EnergySage quotes, they had mentioned that the Best Value Guarantee adjustment was the lowest they could go. On another thread, I saw someone mention they had gotten Tesla from $3.25/w down to $2.89/w for Best Value Guarantee in Virginia so I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing when working with Tesla or if I need to take a different approach. Others seemed to be able to get even lower price per watt when sending in quotes to Tesla to match. Could the prices be different based on region? Any suggestions?

 

[nwdiver]

I'm still trying to understand what is comparable and what's unique to Tesla to make me go with them, assuming all things being equal.

Is $3.53/w a reasonable price?

IMO, no

There are really two broad and common types of solar with a difference significant enough to matter. Back Contact and Front Contact. Back contact is typically ~15% more efficient than front contact and the only two companies that make these as far as I'm aware are SunPower and LG. Pretty sure that Tesla Solar Panels are just standard front contact mono silicon panels.

There's only so many ways to make silicon solar cells... not a huge difference. I would just go with the lowest quote.

 

[rfmurphy81]

IMO, no

There are really two broad and common types of solar with a difference significant enough to matter. Back Contact and Front Contact. Back contact is typically ~15% more efficient than front contact and the only two companies that make these as far as I'm aware are SunPower and LG. Pretty sure that Tesla Solar Panels are just standard front contact mono silicon panels.

There's only so many ways to make silicon solar cells... not a huge difference. I would just go with the lowest quote.

Thanks for the response. Any thoughts on how people are getting varying prices per watt from Tesla? Looking at these forums, other forums and social media, it seems like it's all over the place. I'm just wondering how someone could get as low as $2.60/watt but others are in the $4 range. I must be missing something here.

 

[nwdiver]

I'm just wondering how someone could get as low as $2.60/watt but others are in the $4 range. I must be missing something here.

$2.60/w from Tesla? I've never seen a price that low from Tesla. They make a great luxury car but there's no such thing as a luxury kWh unless you're willing to pay a steep premium for the integrated gateway with monitoring. Super cool but I'm not sure if it's $1/w super cool.

 

[rfmurphy81]

$2.60/w from Tesla? I've never seen a price that low from Tesla. They make a great luxury car but there's no such thing as a luxury kWh unless you're willing to pay a steep premium for the integrated gateway with monitoring. Super cool but I'm not sure if it's $1/w super cool.

Yeah, $2.60 seems really low, especially for a Tesla product. I saw it via the following post on another thread in the forum:

Initial Tesla quote $3.25/w last July. Price matched Down to $2.60/w in Aug. No optimizer (not needed for my setup) and before incentive. Finished install in Oct. and just turned it on yesterday. 15.12 kW in Sarasota.

Maybe the price is different because they are in Florida? That's something I'm going to ask them about when we connect next. The advisor hadn't given me specifications or much details, just size of the system, projected generation for the year and the system price and monthly payment.

 

[nwdiver]

Maybe the price is different because they are in Florida? That's something I'm going to ask them about when we connect next. The advisor hadn't given me specifications or much details, just size of the system, projected generation for the year and the system price and monthly payment.

Also the size and simplicity. If there won't be any optimizers (on Babarons) that means a straight string system which cuts the cost significantly. If you have a more complicated roof install that may not be an option. What size system are you aiming for?

I'm working on an install that we sold for $2.47/w. We were able to get the cost down so much because it's a large system 22.77kW and a string system. The inverters will cost $3k. Adding optimizers would have increased the cost ~$4k + labor.

 

[rfmurphy81]

Also the size and simplicity. If there won't be any optimizers (on Babarons) that means a straight string system which cuts the cost significantly. If you have a more complicated roof install that may not be an option. What size system are you aiming for?

I'm working on an install that we sold for $2.47/w. We were able to get the cost down so much because it's a large system 22.77kW and a string system. The inverters will cost $3k. Adding optimizers would have increased the cost ~$4k + labor.

My annual usage is 7000 kWh so they spec'd out a 4.5 kW system at $4.04/w. This didn't include any EV charging so I asked for the second quote to be upped to account for some more charging so the second quote is almost 10,000 kWh for a 6.175 kW system at $3.53/w. Neither quote specifies the equipment or specifications; it's very high level. When I connect with them next, I'll just have to ask for them to fill in those blanks. I'm in Orange County, though I'm unclear whether pricing varies depending on the market, as I imagine costs may be different in other parts of the country but I'm not sure by how much.

 

[Az_Rael]

Pretty sure that Tesla Solar Panels are just standard front contact mono silicon panels.

Tesla is selling Panasonic panels, so you can get the high efficiency 325W Panasonic’s as an option. That is what they sold me on my system initially before I subbed out for the black/black 315W Panasonic’s for better aesthetics.

 

[rfmurphy81]

Tesla is selling Panasonic panels, so you can get the high efficiency 325W Panasonic’s as an option. That is what they sold me on my system initially before I subbed out for the black/black 315W Panasonic’s for better aesthetics.

Did you recall the difference in price between the two? Assuming they're setting me up with the 325W panels, what do you think of the price per watt I've been quoted?

 

[Az_Rael]

Did you recall the difference in price between the two? Assuming they're setting me up with the 325W panels, what do you think of the price per watt I've been quoted?

Price was the same, other than we needed 1 more panel with the lesser wattage ones so we paid a bit more for that. I would say your Tesla quote is in line with what we paid last year and probably in line with their other Southern California quotes.

Note that I do not recommend Tesla Energy after our experience with them. It is also difficult to get service after the sale. You end up in the same phone hold queue as all of Tesla, so you end up with 1 hour hold times. And there is no app or any other way to get service. Emails are never responded to. Took me 4 months to have six panels fixed that were installed incorrectly from day one.

I would use Energy sage and pick a reputable installer from it. LA Solar was my 2nd choice and if they had Powerwalls in stock I would have used them. Wish I had used them anyways in hindsight.

 

[nwdiver]

Tesla is selling Panasonic panels, so you can get the high efficiency 325W Panasonic’s as an option. That is what they sold me on my system initially before I subbed out for the black/black 315W Panasonic’s for better aesthetics.

That's the high end of the 'standard' front contact mono. 'Super premium' back contact panels from LG and SunPower are now pushing 370w for the same footprint. Back contact allows the entire surface of the cell to be active while the grid contacts of front contact cells slightly reduce production. IMO a system that's >$3/w is only justified if they're using high power ~360w+ panels usually due to space constraints.

Not saying the premium for SunPower or LG is usually justified. I've never used them since I've never had a project where I couldn't just add 1 or 2 more panels and save ~$0.70/w on the cost of panels... A 360w panel can easily cost 2x as much /w vs a 300w panel.

 

[DrSmile]

I think there are a couple of factors that affect the price/watt:

1) Location - In a state like California there are a lot of factors that increase cost, many probably necessary and reasonable. I imagine even local building codes would affect the cost
2) Panels - I had priced out systems ranging from Sunpower to S-Energy. The difference between the most expensive and cheapest panels was about 50 cents/w.
3) Company - I got a lot of quotes, but wound up going with a company that had consistently excellent reviews. Sadly Tesla was not one of the ones that stayed in the running at that point.
4) System Size - The bigger the system, the lower the cost per watt.

I wound up going with Panasonic 330 watt panels because of the lower degradation over time, they guarantee ~91% after 25 years. I haggled a lot and am paying $2.80 / watt, although as expected I am still waiting for the install due to town permitting delays.

 

[wbhokie]

Is $3.53/w a reasonable price? When I mentioned the lower price per watt from the EnergySage quotes, they had mentioned that the Best Value Guarantee adjustment was the lowest they could go. On another thread, I saw someone mention they had gotten Tesla from $3.25/w down to $2.89/w for Best Value Guarantee in Virginia so I'm wondering if there's something I'm missing when working with Tesla or if I need to take a different approach. Others seemed to be able to get even lower price per watt when sending in quotes to Tesla to match. Could the prices be different based on region? Any suggestions?

Those actually sound like my quotes! I think the area you live in does affect the prices quite a bit. I've told several people who go to EnergySage to take their quotes with a grain of salt. (At least the initial ones they send you) They really are overly optimistic and have very little data, but Tesla still honored them. I did talk further with a couple of the companies I was put in touch with through EnergySage, and so I received more formal quotes, but even then, those quotes were given without even a site visit. I think in the end I got around the $2.89/w price you mentioned (I'd have to veirfy) but it sounds right. My install is actually this Friday.

The company I was talking with had good reviews, so I was fine to go with them, except that I did want Tesla Powerwalls, and getting the additional warranty from the self-referral was nice, so I'm glad they matched the price.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Currently the best way to handle a Tesla install is to get a quote from them then solicit an outside bid at <$3/W and have Tesla match.

Price point you should be looking for is around $2.35/W, but there's no real means to get such a price in the US as of today. Tell installers you're getting multiple bids and try for $2.85/W then go to Tesla.

Good luck!

 

[wbhokie]

My install started yesterday and my cost per watt dropped slightly as Tesla upgraded my panels from 325W to 330W free of charge. Can't argue with free upgrades!

 

[rfmurphy81]

My install started yesterday and my cost per watt dropped slightly as Tesla upgraded my panels from 325W to 330W free of charge. Can't argue with free upgrades!

That's great news! I'm wondering if I shot myself in the foot by giving them an higher quote (which was at $3.49) prior to me getting the quotes from EnergySage in the $2.78-$2.90 range. When I asked my advisor about it, she said it wouldn't have mattered as the revised price was the BVG. Has anyone been in this situation (where they got lower quotes after the BVG request was made)? Is there any leverage possible?

I do like keeping it "all in house" with Tesla by having my cars and solar "connected" in a way, plus it seems like their warranties are where they shine and I have hesitation that a few of the installers would be around in 20-30 years anyway. I just question if it's worth the extra $4,000.

 

[boriszima]

That's great news! I'm wondering if I shot myself in the foot by giving them an higher quote (which was at $3.49) prior to me getting the quotes from EnergySage in the $2.78-$2.90 range. When I asked my advisor about it, she said it wouldn't have mattered as the revised price was the BVG. Has anyone been in this situation (where they got lower quotes after the BVG request was made)? Is there any leverage possible?

I do like keeping it "all in house" with Tesla by having my cars and solar "connected" in a way, plus it seems like their warranties are where they shine and I have hesitation that a few of the installers would be around in 20-30 years anyway. I just question if it's worth the extra $4,000.

I did that. I gave them a first quote which was around 3.5. Then i went on EnergySage, found couple other local installers, got their quote. Send it to Tesla which re-did BVG. In the end, funny enough i went with one of the companies i got from there or somewhere else as they were fast to respond, install more efficient panels (Panasonic HIT 330 vs Teslas 315/325), and considerably cheaper as Tesla really wanted to redo my whole roof while all others 2 installers who inspected my 20 year old said i am good. I live in San Fernando Valley (SoCal) so i had plenty of choices. I am in the same way as you, 7k now, anticipate 10k-11k with model 3. My roof is small, so at first i looked at Sunpower which has best rated panels at 360, but way more expensive per w ($4.8) with little budging. I also wanted to keep it all with Tesla, but due to roof work it was $5-7k delta, and less efficiency and not so stellar reviews i am goin with a competitor which also included Main panel upgrade for "free" in the end its just under $3.00 per Watt including panel upgrade.

18 of VBHN330SA16 (HIT Panasonic)
18 of p400 Optimizers
Solar Edge -5000H-US inverter
100 to 200amp MSP upgrade
25 years warranty all around for all products and roof, minus monitoring system.

@rfmurphy81 - as some of the vendors said, "any solar, is better than no solar" Good luck!

 

[MXWing]

That's great news! I'm wondering if I shot myself in the foot by giving them an higher quote (which was at $3.49) prior to me getting the quotes from EnergySage in the $2.78-$2.90 range. When I asked my advisor about it, she said it wouldn't have mattered as the revised price was the BVG. Has anyone been in this situation (where they got lower quotes after the BVG request was made)? Is there any leverage possible?

I do like keeping it "all in house" with Tesla by having my cars and solar "connected" in a way, plus it seems like their warranties are where they shine and I have hesitation that a few of the installers would be around in 20-30 years anyway. I just question if it's worth the extra $4,000.

It seems we can only compare quotes against same geographical/utility area.

My advisor swears he's never seen anything starting with a 2 in California.

You always have leverage until you hand over cash.

3.40ish is where Tesla seems to want to be at for me for a 5.5 system.

 

[rfmurphy81]

It seems we can only compare quotes against same geographical/utility area.

My advisor swears he's never seen anything starting with a 2 in California.

You always have leverage until you hand over cash.

3.40ish is where Tesla seems to want to be at for me for a 5.5 system.

I'd be totally okay with $3.04/w from Tesla in Southern California, but not sure if anyone else has recently gotten that low of a quote from them in the last few months. I'd really like to point to those people and ask how they got a better price than me.

 

[Vines]

Many factors come into play that effect system cost.
Does the Installer integrate with your roofer, therefore getting the best warranty possible, and clear responsibility if there's a leak?
Are the conduit runs direct, or maybe you want to run them down the back of the house and through the crawl space for aesthetics?
Type of panels certainly vary wildly. If you want the warranty to be worth anything, pick a brand that you think will be around in 20 years. Plenty of cheap panels to go around and lots of dead companies, both installers and equipment manufacturers.
Size and design of the system. There's economy of scale advantages to rather large systems. Also the less different arrays the cheaper to install.
Steepness of roof, type of roofing. Steep slopes are going to take longer. Barrel, S tiles, wood shake, or Flat tile will take longer as well, plus require specialized flashing methods and products.

Typically you get what you pay for so if you choose the cheapest guy don't be surprised if they are out of business if you have some issue in 5-10 years.
Also the faster you work, often the less careful you are, so there might be missed rafters, excess roof damage from being on it during the middle of the day, or even conduit secured to the roof with just conduit clamps, and no flashing.