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Is 350 KW charging possible for current model 3s?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by argon2018, Feb 11, 2019 at 6:23 PM.

  1. ebmcs03

    ebmcs03 Active Member

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    I’m happy with my 118kw/hr and 500 mi/hr charge rate I got last time at Barstow
     
  2. happyzod

    happyzod Member

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    They probably just over provision the battery. I'm thinking 125 KWH battery with NCM chemistry and aggressive cooling would allow 350KW charging to 50%.
     
  3. R.S

    R.S Active Member

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    Isn’t peak charging already just between 10-40% or so? And that’s at about 110-120 kW. Now from what I’ve seen it’s already at 85 kW @ 60%. So maybe 155 from 10-20% and from there on a linear taper to 120 @ 40% and 85 @60%.

    That would probably sound cool on paper, but the actual time saved would not be a lot unless you always just charge from 10-20%.

    IMO making the car not taper until 80%, would actually help a lot more and they would not need any new chargers.
     
  4. lolder

    lolder Member

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    The taper is all about making the battery last well past 10 years so that question goes away as it did with the Prii.
     
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  5. mike123abc

    mike123abc Member

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    I have seen the wattage flicker to 121KW at the supercharger... Probably a rounding error or voltage fluctuation, but I hit 120KW peak a lot. The taper definitely happens before 50%.

    Assuming you can start at 5% and go to 45%+- at full charging rate (whatever it is) that would be about 40% of battery. Assuming about 75KWH battery, that would be 30KWH delivered. At 120KWH current supercharger max rate that would take 15 minutes to deliver that much energy (which appears to be the case today). If lets say next gen supercharger can double it to 240KWH, it would take 7.5 minutes to deliver the same amount of power.

    So, doubling the supercharger rate would only really save at most 7.5 minutes. Probably less since the rate would probably taper off sooner.

    The only real solution to the problem is a larger battery pack. If the model 3 had a 150KW pack in the future, you could get 80% of the current long range distance in 15 minutes at 240KWH. Having a "600" range means filling to half is not a big deal...
     
  6. ℬête Noire

    ℬête Noire Active Member

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    #26 ℬête Noire, Feb 12, 2019 at 5:09 AM
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 5:42 AM
    The battery itself could almost certainly accept the charge at that rate, you can tell this from the long plateau from just above 5% to about 45%. The issue will be heat build-up over time and how fast the HVAC system can shed heat while parked.
     
  7. argon2018

    argon2018 Member

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    I thought the taper was due to physical limitation of the cell.. so it is set by the manufacturer to prevent damaging the battery?
     
  8. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    Correct, you could charge the battery faster but it wouldn't last as long.
     
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  9. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    getting from 20-50% SoC isn't bad, but I like to sometimes skip a Supercharger if possible (traffic, location, etc), so I wouldn't mind if they could get that high charge rate to last until 70 or 75% SoC before that first tapering point.
     
  10. Big Earl

    Big Earl Supporting Member

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    I'm sure they can, at the expense of longevity. I, for one, am not willing to make that trade.
     
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  11. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    I think the 3's pack is a little more robust than they're letting on.

    https://electrek.co/2019/02/08/tesla-model-3-new-record-charge-rate-125-kw-ccs/


    We're still beaming back data to the mothership....I'm sure at some point there will be a software unlock to bump us up a little. It's in their best interests to get us in and out of Superchargers as quickly as possible. That's the impetus behind V3. It's not only good for the psychology of buying an EV for new customers, but it increases the throughput and alleviates congestion at popular charging spots.
     
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  12. Big Earl

    Big Earl Supporting Member

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    I think these are two separate issues, one being maximum charge rate and the other being profile of the taper. I expect Model 3 LR and the 100 kWh S & X to be able to increase their charge rate to somewhere between 150 kW and 180 kW, but I don't think the taper profile will change significantly. Model 3 LR will drop below 100 kW around 50-55% as it does now and S/X100 will drop below 100 kW around 65-70% as they do now.
     
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  13. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    Here's a good overlay.

    Tesla Model 3 CCS Charging @ 126 kW — Higher Power Coming Soon ... | CleanTechnica

    Looks like the taper remains the same at 50%, but CCS drops below Supercharger rates at about 55%. I expect that has to do with the extra heat generated from the higher charge rate.
     
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  14. Big Earl

    Big Earl Supporting Member

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    Behold my handy Paint skills

    M3LRSCv3.png

    SX100SCv3.png
     
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  15. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

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    For whatever *sugar* talking Porsche wants to do, my Model 3 at 110v 8 amp is charging faster than a Taycan. ;)

    Until we see real world data, supercharging network, and BATTERY WARRANTY/TERMS/CONDITIONS

    potential and an empty sack is worth an empty sack.
     
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  16. suwaneedad

    suwaneedad Member

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    This, to me, is why I believe in buying whatever the largest available pack is at the time of purchasing the car: it pays off massively over time via quicker supercharging stops. I am very hopeful that Model Y ships with a ~100kW+ pack option given the added vertical space available in the "SUV" form. This would translate to 400mi+ of range per the EPA calcs assuming Model Y efficiency is pretty close to Model 3's.
     
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  17. suwaneedad

    suwaneedad Member

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    Yes, a day after the battery warranty expires!
     
  18. kengchang

    kengchang Member

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    Porsche unveiled 350kW charging station to charge the upcoming Taycan but Porsche never claimed Taycan will be charging at 350kW.
     
  19. gilscales

    gilscales Member

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  20. Kirby64

    Kirby64 Member

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    Taper starts at 50% SoC. Obviously having the car taper later would make it charge faster, but clearly they aren't doing that for battery longevity purposes. The best they can likely do is increase charge rate at lower SoC. An additional 30kW would do quite a bit to speed things up, even if taper happens sooner.
     

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