Is 350 miles enough for towing 10k pounds?

[Carmageddon]

I am a tri motor trim pre order holder since unveiled.

But given recent financial insights, I understand that saving money for retirement is more important than wasting on new cars, yet I still want the CT, so I am thinking, what if I go with the dual motor trim when configuration time comes?

I guess that 350 miles is really 150 miles between charges.
I currently live in Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada, the first two superchargers seem to be within that range.

Is the entire network set to allow me to travel and explore the continent with the dual motor trim towing a trailer?

I think 10k is enough for any boat, camper trailer for 6-10 people.. I am not sure at all what does the third motor do.

I would keep it forever, so battery degradation after warranty period is something that I have to think about...

Although paying say, 10k for replacing the battery after say 10 years, is cheaper than giving the 20k to Tesla and pay interest over that financing..

I might as well put 10k for 10 years in stocks, and with compounding interest, I will have about $22,196.40 with average market returns of 8% annually.

So, please tell me, is driving around with 150 miles between charges viable?

 

[nwdiver]

Although paying say, 10k for replacing the battery after say 10 years, is cheaper than giving the 20k to Tesla and pay interest over that financing..

I might as well put 10k for 10 years in stocks, and with compounding interest, I will have about $22,196.40 with average market returns of 8% annually.

So, please tell me, is driving around with 150 miles between charges viable?

It's unlikely you're going to need a new battery after 10 years. I have ~175,000 miles on an 8 year old pack and it still has >90% of it's original capacity... and I live in SE NM were average summer temps are >90F. The cells in the Cyber Truck will be far more robust and batteries will degrade far slower where it's cooler.

The Tri-Motor CT is also planned to have a range of ~500 miles so you should be able to get ~200 or 250 towing a trailer.

 

[Carmageddon]

It's unlikely you're going to need a new battery after 10 years. I have ~175,000 miles on an 8 year old pack and it still has >90% of it's original capacity... and I live in SE NM were average summer temps are >90F. The cells in the Cyber Truck will be far more robust and batteries will degrade far slower where it's cooler.

The Tri-Motor CT is also planned to have a range of ~500 miles so you should be able to get ~200 or 250 towing a trailer.

Thank you for the reply, I already factored in potential 10% loss after 10 years, and that's why I am asking whether going on 150 miles between charges is viable...

If it is, give me a good reason to pay 20k extra for 500 miles, other than the less frequent supercharging stops?

 

[nwdiver]

If it is, give me a good reason to pay 20k extra for 500 miles, other than the less frequent supercharging stops?

Also faster supercharging stops. But if you think 150 miles would be sufficient then save the $20k...

 

[OakvilleMYP]

I am a tri motor trim pre order holder since unveiled.

But given recent financial insights, I understand that saving money for retirement is more important than wasting on new cars, yet I still want the CT, so I am thinking, what if I go with the dual motor trim when configuration time comes?

I guess that 350 miles is really 150 miles between charges.
I currently live in Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada, the first two superchargers seem to be within that range.

Is the entire network set to allow me to travel and explore the continent with the dual motor trim towing a trailer?

I think 10k is enough for any boat, camper trailer for 6-10 people.. I am not sure at all what does the third motor do.

I would keep it forever, so battery degradation after warranty period is something that I have to think about...

Although paying say, 10k for replacing the battery after say 10 years, is cheaper than giving the 20k to Tesla and pay interest over that financing..

I might as well put 10k for 10 years in stocks, and with compounding interest, I will have about $22,196.40 with average market returns of 8% annually.

So, please tell me, is driving around with 150 miles between charges viable?

You seem to have considered what it will actually be like owning an EV, prior to owning one. I didn’t have a clear picture prior to getting our first EV, I think the dual motor is advertised as 300mi, and that really means 180mi (80% full - 20% empty). I cant say what the cold and towing will do to that, but it could easily be 100mi. Also the EV likes to be plugged in. You drive it 20mi today, it still likes to be plugged in for a top up. It isn’t good to charge it rapidly often, supercharging, it prefers 240v. To avoid range anxiety, I think for what you are suggesting the 3motor will be better suited. Imagive stopping every 1.5hr for a top up... or worse, getting stranded.

 

[Carmageddon]

You seem to have considered what it will actually be like owning an EV, prior to owning one. I didn’t have a clear picture prior to getting our first EV, I think the dual motor is advertised as 300mi, and that really means 180mi (80% full - 20% empty). I cant say what the cold and towing will do to that, but it could easily be 100mi. Also the EV likes to be plugged in. You drive it 20mi today, it still likes to be plugged in for a top up. It isn’t good to charge it rapidly often, supercharging, it prefers 240v. To avoid range anxiety, I think for what you are suggesting the 3motor will be better suited. Imagive stopping every 1.5hr for a top up... or worse, getting stranded.

Damn, I dont know why I thought it is 350!
Are you saying I shouldnt count on the last 20% of power for road trips?
I guess for long road trips with trailer, frequent supercharging to 100% wont kill it (they'd be maybe twice a year I guess?)
Still, 100-20% means approxmiately 120 miles.. likely not enough

Thank you for raising a valid point.. I actually just discovered supercharge.info, although I cant see a way to turn on radio for ALL supercharger, turning on just enough to see what a map looks like with 120miles range:

That doesn't seem too bad, is it? looks like it is doable.. Am I underestimating how annoying it would be to supercharge roughly every two hours of driving with a trailer? maybe.. I don't know..
But for twice a year of really long road trips, is convenience worth 20k USD? I am not sure... It seems 120mile is more than doable already!

 

[OakvilleMYP]

Damn, I dont know why I thought it is 350!
Are you saying I shouldnt count on the last 20% of power for road trips?
I guess for long road trips with trailer, frequent supercharging to 100% wont kill it (they'd be maybe twice a year I guess?)
Still, 100-20% means approxmiately 120 miles.. likely not enough

Thank you for raising a valid point.. I actually just discovered supercharge.info, although I cant see a way to turn on radio for ALL supercharger, turning on just enough to see what a map looks like with 120miles range:
View attachment 608184

That doesn't seem too bad, is it? looks like it is doable.. Am I underestimating how annoying it would be to supercharge roughly every two hours of driving with a trailer? maybe.. I don't know..
But for twice a year of really long road trips, is convenience worth 20k USD? I am not sure... It seems 120mile is more than doable already!

Do you currently have an EV? If so, you’ll know if frequent charging would be annoying in that scenario. But here are some more suggestions.
You mention 100-20, but I said 80-20. The battery doesn’t like to be at 100, you can do 100 for a trip, but I believe the charging slows down significantly from 90-100. So you can push it to 100 at home and start your trip. Supercharging is, I believe but you should confirm, done to 80% quickly, maybe even 90%, but going to 100% again I believe it slows down. So typically you can start trip 100, but all the stops will likely be up to 80-90%. You can go lower then 20, but how much lower will depend on your risk factor//comfort zone. If the vehicle stops, it’s not just a matter of using a jerry can, you need power and I know from what I have read the vehicle doesn’t like that.
Yes 20k USD is a lot, and more chargers will be installed, and more EV’s will be stopping at them to charge.
Maybe search the X forum and find out how much less range you get when towing.
I am getting a 3motor, so I can do a weekly round trip without stopping to charge, something that can’t be done with the current vehicles.

 

[HenryT]

I suspect supercharging with a trailer is going to be a bit of a chore. Unless things are set up differently in the US (I'm in the UK), I think you would need to de-couple/re-couple whatever you are towing every time you stop at a charger.

That alone might be an argument in favour of the longer-range version, plus don't forget the additional cost isn't 'absolute' as it will be offset to some extent by a higher re-sale value.

 

[EVortex]

Battery range will exceed current predictions as innovation continues.

 

[OakvilleMYP]

I suspect supercharging with a trailer is going to be a bit of a chore. Unless things are set up differently in the US (I'm in the UK), I think you would need to de-couple/re-couple whatever you are towing every time you stop at a charger.

That alone might be an argument in favour of the longer-range version, plus don't forget the additional cost isn't 'absolute' as it will be offset to some extent by a higher re-sale value.

Good call, I don’t tow so it didnt even occur to me that you back i to most spots. I think there are maybe some drive thru style chatges but its likely new and rare.

 

[OakvilleMYP]

Battery range will exceed current predictions as innovation continues.

Maybe, maybe not.
They priced it aggressively knowing its a future vehicle and likely built in those future savings into the price. To get 300-500mi you need very large battery packs on the CT. I wouldn’t expect more range 1 year from now. But it’s not impossible that it comes in 5-15% more range than projected.

 

[ThomasD]

You need a chargebut the only charger is in a parking lot. You are towing a 35 foot camper. Finding a place to down jack the trailers could be a pain in the ass. Then get to charge and hookup again. I see most superchargers are in parking lots. The 500 mile cybertruck might be the way to go The question is how long will it take to go from 10% to 90% or 100% when the super chargers are running slow or busy

 

[alexgr]

So, please tell me, is driving around with 150 miles between charges viable?

I saw a day ago a video someone in Model Y hauling a pretty big camper house. They managed to get just under 100 miles out of it. But that was near the maximum load, at highway speed (65mph), and in Model Y. I suspect CT can be better adopted to towing bigger loads than Model Y. So I would think we should be able to get about 150 miles from a dual motor CT while towing. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see a denser network of superchargers in 2 years. One problem though, you need a special charging place available to charge with a trailer, not all superchargers have them.

 

[OakvilleMYP]

I saw a day ago a video someone in Model Y hauling a pretty big camper house. They managed to get just under 100 miles out of it. But that was near the maximum load, at highway speed (65mph), and in Model Y. I suspect CT can be better adopted to towing bigger loads than Model Y. So I would think we should be able to get about 150 miles from a dual motor CT while towing. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see a denser network of superchargers in 2 years. One problem though, you need a special charging place available to charge with a trailer, not all superchargers have them.

Yikes! 100mi of 3500lbs, thats weak.
I mean thats not practical for a road trip, as that would be a tear drop trailer. You can always rent if you really have to tow once a year, or take an alternate vehicle.

 

[alexgr]

Yikes! 100mi of 3500lbs, thats weak.
I mean thats not practical for a road trip, as that would be a tear drop trailer. You can always rent if you really have to tow once a year, or take an alternate vehicle.

I found the video:

The camper is said to be somewhere between 3000 and 3500 lbs. It's okay for Model Y since I would only expect it to tow a HomeDepot trailer once in awhile.

Considering that CT should be able to tow more than Model Y, but Tesla motors are more or less the same on all their cars (the same 2 types), I wonder if Tesla is going to increase the gear ratio in CT... but then they will decrease acceleration. Hmm.. Are they going for a two- (or more) gear transmission similar to Taycan? Otherwise they may need a very new motor design for CT. Any thoughts?

 

[OakvilleMYP]

I found the video:

The camper is said to be somewhere between 3000 and 3500 lbs. It's okay for Model Y since I would only expect it to tow a HomeDepot trailer once in awhile.

Considering that CT should be able to tow more than Model Y, but Tesla motors are more or less the same on all their cars (the same 2 types), I wonder if Tesla is going to increase the gear ratio in CT... but then they will decrease acceleration. Hmm.. Are they going for a two- (or more) gear transmission similar to Taycan? Otherwise they may need a very new motor design for CT. Any thoughts?

So 1% and 99% on the y and he got 92mi. As we know thats a 300mi vehicle, so thats what you would get best case scenario on the cybertruck towing max capacity (dual motor 10,000lbs). On the 500mi tri motors likely 150mi if you multiply these numbers out. Unless there is a secret sauce for the truck cor towing. This video was 1% from them ending up on a milk box, thats very risky.

 

[Hblick48]

Check out Ohmman's Airstream Adventures.

He's been towing an Airstream with MX, recently upgraded to New long range MX. Normal battery consumption will at least double when towing. In order to not spend 1/2 of your trip charging, and getting a bad case of range anxiety, get the most battery capacity available.

 

[alexgr]

So 1% and 99% on the y and he got 92mi. As we know thats a 300mi vehicle, so thats what you would get best case scenario on the cybertruck towing max capacity (dual motor 10,000lbs). On the 500mi tri motors likely 150mi if you multiply these numbers out. Unless there is a secret sauce for the truck cor towing. This video was 1% from them ending up on a milk box, thats very risky.

I think the lowest I had on my car was about 8%, so by my standards of safe battery use I wouldn't get more than 80-85 miles out of it. I don't think, however, this can be immediately applied to the cybertruck. If the gear ration is higher, torque higher, speed lower, then towing can be more efficient in respect to normal driving.

I found another example of Model X towing over 4000 lbs. You can go to 36:51 in the video and look at the results. Model X used 2.73 times more energy towing a trailer. So, Model Y did somewhat better.

For F-150 this towing to empty ratio is about 2-2.2 according to what I have seen, but if you consider that ICE wastes quite a bit of energy, when that constant wasted energy is subtracted from both towing and empty drives, the ratio of towing to empty will only go up. (example: 10 gallons spent when empty, 20 gallons spent when towing -> ratio 2.0; the thermal efficiency of diesels is about 40%, so 6 gallons go to waste, and then it is 4 gallons vs 14 gallons or 3.5 ratio) It seems then the electric vehicles may appear to lose more energy when towing than ICE vehicles, but (1) not by a lot and (2) it may very well be just because of ICE inefficiencies.

That said, towing serious loads with CT may ask for V3 superchargers every 50 miles and/or 500+mi battery. It seems the conclusion of my mental exercises is that if you want to tow something for a [really] long distance, you need tri-motor CT with 500+ mi which may give you about 200 miles of happy towing.

 

[CyberGus]

You will never regret having more range.

That said, we don't yet know the curb weight of the CT vs other models. If it's very heavy, then the towed load will be a lower percentage of overall weight. (Think of adding 100lbs to a semi vs adding 100lbs to a bicycle...one hurts more lol)

 

[ThomasD]

They tested the Rivian at max towing 11,000 pounds and found a 50% reduction in range