Is $9k worth 310 miles v 220?

[Crispix]

I'm not sure this is all that interesting, but I accidentally charged my Model 3 to 99% or so yesterday at work (I forgot to set the 90% limit, and it said it would be done charging in 5 minutes when I got to the car, so it was quite full) and the rated range was 315 miles.

It’s normal for brand-new Teslas to max charge a bit higher than rated range. My S85 is rated 265 miles but brand-new was showing 272 for the first weeks.

I think it’s because the initial battery degradation happens pretty quickly and then stabilizes at the actual rated range, and Tesla accounts for this behavior when advertising and setting expectations.

Four years later my S85 shows 255 on a full charge. I usually charge to 80% and do a full charge about a dozen times per year. I suspect actual degradation is a bit worse but software improvements may have made the car a bit more efficient.

 

[azred]

The range difference between the MX 75D and 100D is only 52 miles but the cost difference is $16k. So the $9k for 90 miles is a steal!

Don’t go down that road. I paid $2000 to go from 210 to 249 in my 2016 S (the 60 to 75 software upgrade). So I guess $2k for 39 miles was a super duper steal and $9000 for 90 miles is kind of a ripoff. Yet some S60 owners think $2000 for the 39 extra miles is a rip-off, so go figure.

I coughed up the nine large for my LR 3 reluctantly. But if SR had been say 250, I would have gone with it. I am satisfied with 249 on my S but didn’t find 210 enough for my taste — and 220 obviously isn’t much better. To me the deciding factor was whether I felt comfortable frequently driving the car close to “empty.” I have never driven ICE on the bottom quarter of a tank, so for me a range cushion is worth the cost. I realize Superchargers are easily reached by the SR, but would require me to be comfortable running on a low battery at times and that’s not me.

Also, as 3s proliferate it will be nice to have the option to comfortably skip crowded Supercharger locations. That reason might actually be the most compelling for most people who would otherwise choke on the added cost.

 

[T34ME]

I wonder if Tesla has considered a "road trip battery" that you tow behind you. Sounds silly, but it could give you range only when you need it, so you're not driving around with extra battery mass for daily commuting.

There are practical problems like projecting a battery pack outside of the frame of the car, and the lack of tow hitch, but look at everything Tesla has done.

Interesting idea.

 

[bnsfengineer]

Is it worth $9k to get 90 miles more? Is there other differences? Does not seem so and seems pricey. My fear is this price may drop.

Are most people getting SR or LR? It's like I want the car now bad so LR but $9k is a lot.

What if half of the tax credit goes away by the time they release? Possible?

 

[bnsfengineer]

In my post directly above yours I showed that on my drive today (average speed 52mph, 36F weather) I ran 96% efficiency vs rated.

I typically charge to 80% (since I don't need any more) but will certainly charge to 100% if necessary and have run my battery down to 1-2% when needed.

Even with 102k on my S85, I still have 250 miles of rated range.

Taking all that into account my available real range today (in 36F weather, with 102k on the clock) would be 245 miles vs the beginning rated range of 265 miles or 92%. Significantly more than 60-70% as you seem to think.

That's pretty damm impressive!

 

[Quickstart88]

What if the big battery were a $5,250 option? Because that's what it might end up being. If they push the SR battery to later in the year, as has been rumored, then the full tax credit (U.S.) will be gone when most of us are able to purchase. That means if you have an early reservation, you could get the LR and the full tax credit—meaning you spend $9000 extra dollars but get $3,750 extra back compared to waiting for SR.

I didn't want to spend the extra for LR, but if it means I get it for $5,250, I'm seriously considering it. This all depends on when the SR is available, of course. Hopefully Tesla lets us know their plans on the earnings call in February.

I am with you on this. I really don't need LR for what I use it for. SR is ~50 kilowatts and LR is ~75 kilowatts battery. A different of ~ 25 kilowatts. The new power wall granted it's using slightly different battery chemistry but cost about 7K each for ~ 12 or 14 kilowatts. That means ideally the extra 25 kilowatts should cost ~ 14K. Meaning the cost of 2 power wal at 7K each.

So 9K is actually a decent price for the LR. Would you agree? But I can't pull the trigger for what I use it for.
Also, what's to say the tax incentive might go away completely for whatever reason. That's the debate I am having a hard time with.

Give me options for SR with all the trimming : premium, color, EAP. That's what I really want.

 

[majcina]

It’s pretty clear that the SR Model 3 isn’t going to be available with the full federal tax credit (a half credit is likely for most Americans who’ve preordered). For those who plan to get PUP anyway, as others have pointed out, the "effective" cost of upgrading to LR is "only" $5,250. To me, that’s a good deal to get 90 more rated miles, a faster 0-60 time, better battery warranty, and (especially) getting the car many months earlier. So that’s why I just configured, when I’d originally planned to wait for SR.

Keep in mind the $7,500 federal credit is for your 2018 taxes (meaning you won’t get the refund until 2019). I made sure to change my W-4 to increase the allowances so my paycheck is fatter for 2017.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

It’s pretty clear that the SR Model 3 isn’t going to be available with the full federal tax credit (a half credit is likely for most Americans who’ve preordered). For those who plan to get PUP anyway, as others have pointed out, the "effective" cost of upgrading to LR is "only" $5,250. To me, that’s a good deal to get 90 more rated miles, a faster 0-60 time, better battery warranty, and (especially) getting the car many months earlier. So that’s why I just configured, when I’d originally planned to wait for SR.

Keep in mind the $7,500 federal credit is for your 2018 taxes (meaning you won’t get the refund until 2019). I made sure to change my W-4 to increase the allowances so my paycheck is fatter for 2017.

I wouldn't bet the farm that SR is out of the running for the full credit. We'll see where things pan out. I think that one of the reasons Canadian reservationists have seen a bump UP in their delivery times is that Tesla is playing the system a bit and maybe diverting deliveries there to postpone the initiation of the phase out period on the tax credits here. We'll see.

Dan

 

[thebigbobowski]

I definitely keep going back and forth on this. Yes, the LR is "cheaper" with the full tax credit. But I was never going to buy the LR in the first place. Really having a hard time with this decision.

 

[flashflooder]

I definitely keep going back and forth on this. Yes, the LR is "cheaper" with the full tax credit. But I was never going to buy the LR in the first place. Really having a hard time with this decision.

you, me, and everyone else who was planning on getting the SR. Their evil plan is working.

 

[N8Howell33]

I definitely keep going back and forth on this. Yes, the LR is "cheaper" with the full tax credit. But I was never going to buy the LR in the first place. Really having a hard time with this decision.

In the same boat and decided just to pull the trigger on long range. I was already going to get the PUP so it’s 9K more than I wanted. I know I’ll get the tax credit and Oregon also has a 2.5k credit so that helps. So with the tax credit guaranteed versus risking half or none, it’s a little easier to swallow.

 

[thebigbobowski]

I had "the talk" with my wife last night and she had a little heart attack when she saw what our LR monthly payment would be. 8 Ball says: outlook not so good.

 

[AviP]

I'm staying with the AWD SR as I don't want PUP and the $14K jump to LR is not what I stood in line for. Most likely i'll get either $3750 or $1875 tax credit. Sucks!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I wouldn't bet the farm that SR is out of the running for the full credit. We'll see where things pan out. I think that one of the reasons Canadian reservationists have seen a bump UP in their delivery times is that Tesla is playing the system a bit and maybe diverting deliveries there to postpone the initiation of the phase out period on the tax credits here. We'll see.

Dan

Canada is likely about the rebate. There's an election coming, and a change of party could eliminate or change the current very large rebate significantly. If Tesla could combine both pushing US 200,000 into Q3 (very unlikely) _and_ getting lots of ON rebates it'd be a big win.

 

[MrBilly]

I have a 70D model S and 100% is around 225 miles now, just 5 more than the model 3 SR. I decided to pull the trigger on the LR model 3 when invited even though I didn't think I had to have the extra range when I ordered, in part to get the full fed tax credit, and in my case, for 2017. After having 2 Teslas now for almost 2 months my perspective is: I'm really glad I got the LR 3. The "tank" on the model 3 seems huge compared to the model S, we always take the 3 when going any distance out of convenience, a nice option to have. Even if we have to pay once in a while to supercharge, no big deal. And the stereo is better, map upgraded, more fun to drive, etc. I haven't kept good track of each to compare so don't know for sure but it seems like the range is underestimated on the LR 3 at 310 miles, at least compared to the model S.

 

[doubleohwhat]

Is it reasonable with current spacing of superchargers to do long distance driving with a 220 mile range car?

Tesla has filled a lot of the gaps but there are a few routes around the southeast that my S75 (~242 mile range) can't make without driving below the speed limit. So while pretty much any route is doable if you slow down, some routes will add extra driving time.

That said, Tesla should have nearly all gaps covered by the end of this year. So by the time most SR 3s start hitting the roads this should be non-issue.

The unknown of what Tesla may due in the future drives me nuts!

Welcome to the Tesla community

Tesla switched to AP2 less than a month after I took delivery of my S. Tesla also dropped the price of the S60 to S75 upgrade from $9k to $2k just over a month after I purchased the upgrade.

Since I'll be taking delivery of my 3 within the next few weeks, I predict a non-retrofitable AP3 will be released in April (joking... kinda).

The battery warranty allows 30% degradation

This is why I ordered the LR M3. I plan on keeping this car until the battery/drivetrain warranty is up and it will be our road trip car since the wife will be getting a SR M3. Degredation will happen but I won't have to worry about having less than ~217 miles of range for at least eight years or 120k miles.

Don’t go down that road. I paid $2000 to go from 210 to 249 in my 2016 S (the 60 to 75 software upgrade).

Compared to the $9k I spent on the 60 to 75 upgrade, the LR M3 at $9k extra is a freaking bargain.

 

[adaptabl]

Except that to get it early, it is NOT a $9,000 option. Its $9,000 for the LR battery + $5,000 premium whether you wanted it or not. Turning a $35,000 into a minimum $49,000. Get paint and its become a $50,000 car. That $14,000 you must spend extra to get the car early even if you didn't want either option. Losing a little on the $7500 rebate doesn't make up for the extra $14,000.

It will be interesting how many of the reservations drop off once the $7500.00 is gone. The EV market is about to get very competitive in the next 2 years. LR may have to be standard soon to keep a competitive advantage. Other cell producers are also building giga factories to lower battery cost for all manufacturers.

 

[thebigbobowski]

Made a final decision on LR vs. SR. As much as I want LR, financially it's not a smart move for me. Will wait for SR instead.

 

[flashflooder]

Made a final decision on LR vs. SR. As much as I want LR, financially it's not a smart move for me. Will wait for SR instead.

I think I've mostly arrived at the same conclusion.... We'll see what happens when I get that configuration invite email, though.... Try as I may, I'm having a hard time visualizing myself hitting the "defer" button.

 

[thebigbobowski]

I think I've mostly arrived at the same conclusion.... We'll see what happens when I get that configuration invite email, though.... Try as I may, I'm having a hard time visualizing myself hitting the "defer" button.

My lease is up in two weeks and I just bought a used car to tide me over until the SR is available. So that pretty much finalized my decision.