Is a lack of instrumentation dangerous?

[Ugliest1]

Sorry for the post spam but let me just add that it is all in how you use the interface. Both the traditional knobs and the touch screen can be bad, if you let it take your focus off the road. There are times, I don't mess with the knobs in my car because I know I need to pay attention to the road. Same with touch screen. It can be good or bad, depending on how you use it. There will probably be times when we should wait till we are stopped at a light to do something on the touch screen because we need to focus on the road.

I have to reply just to +1 this. As a small example, you're coming up to a marked crosswalk. Is that the right time to start fooling around with temperature, or the sunroof?

Everyone who consumes it will eventually die.

I disagree!!! *TIME* is the enemy! Remember, "Time is a good teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its students".

Actually it is, because you can't do it by feel, there is no tactile or haptic feedback on the Tesla screen. I routinely find buttons on my BMW with feel and muscle memory without looking at anything. I imagine eventually the brain will adapt to the new technology but you'll still always need to glance over, and in my opinion that is still inferior. There's a reason that even though there have been glass cockpit systems in aircraft for 25 years there are still 100+ buttons and knobs.

Not arguing with your point about slightly inferior - it may very well be. Especially on bumpy roads it can be a bit of a challenge to actually hit that down arrow for a cooler temperature, instead of turning the climate off completely, for example.

However life is a series of tradeoffs, and IMHO the slightly-inferior-non-haptic-feel of the S, X, and 3 screen pales in comparison with the vast benefits the removal of buttons and using a single software-downloadable screen instead gives you.

[EDIT: re the aircraft thing, the consequences of computer failure are far greater at 10,000ft. You can't just slow down and pull off to the side of the road. Whole different set of logistics and not a great example.]

 

[brucet999]

Yes, clearly a death trap. Everyone should cancel their reservations immediately.

Pretty far out on the reservation queue, are you?

 

[Stolz25]

Pretty far out on the reservation queue, are you?

I was day one online before the reveal, but every little bit helps.

 

[voip-ninja]

Not arguing with your point about slightly inferior - it may very well be. Especially on bumpy roads it can be a bit of a challenge to actually hit that down arrow for a cooler temperature, instead of turning the climate off completely, for example.

However life is a series of tradeoffs, and IMHO the slightly-inferior-non-haptic-feel of the S, X, and 3 screen pales in comparison with the vast benefits the removal of buttons and using a single software-downloadable screen instead gives you.

[EDIT: re the aircraft thing, the consequences of computer failure are far greater at 10,000ft. You can't just slow down and pull off to the side of the road. Whole different set of logistics and not a great example.]

We are in agreement. Honestly the problem is less of the person who dramatically insists that M3 control system is going to kill people and much more with people that continue to insist that the M3 control system is not only as good as a traditional setup but superior.

There have been a lot of snarky comments from people showing the seemingly cluttered cockpits of German luxury sedans (and how terrible it is compared to a tablet) and I would have to guess that none of those people have tried to adjust a control in the car while cruising the Autobahn at 100+ MPH where even a glance away from the road can be fatal.

As far as Elon's comments about how instrument clusters are meaningless because they aren't in taxicabs, well, some of us DO want to drive our cars because there is enjoyment in driving, even if we might make use of the auto pilot from time to time.

 

[Ugliest1]

As far as Elon's comments about how instrument clusters are meaningless because they aren't in taxicabs, well, some of us DO want to drive our cars because there is enjoyment in driving, even if we might make use of the auto pilot from time to time.

+1 on that.

 

[Runt8]

We are in agreement. Honestly the problem is less of the person who dramatically insists that M3 control system is going to kill people and much more with people that continue to insist that the M3 control system is not only as good as a traditional setup but superior.

There have been a lot of snarky comments from people showing the seemingly cluttered cockpits of German luxury sedans (and how terrible it is compared to a tablet) and I would have to guess that none of those people have tried to adjust a control in the car while cruising the Autobahn at 100+ MPH where even a glance away from the road can be fatal.

As far as Elon's comments about how instrument clusters are meaningless because they aren't in taxicabs, well, some of us DO want to drive our cars because there is enjoyment in driving, even if we might make use of the auto pilot from time to time.

Depending on how the scroll wheels on the steering wheel work, they may very well be superior. The safest button is the one you don't have to take your hands off the wheel to press. It all depends on how easy it is to change the function that the scroll wheels control.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Actually a taxi is kinda cluttered with buttons and controls. Manual heat/cool controls, touchscreen with ads, credit card slider with keypad...

And then you have all the extra boxes the driver deals with hanging off the dash...

 

[JonathanD]

I'm surprised Tesla hasn't done more with voice controls, actually. I don't see why you couldn't do many things with voice to allow you to keep eyes on the road.

 

[brucet999]

[EDIT: re the aircraft thing, the consequences of computer failure are far greater at 10,000ft. You can't just slow down and pull off to the side of the road. Whole different set of logistics and not a great example.]

I don't know about that. Having just seen "Dunkirk", I'm pretty sure that airplanes that have lost all power at just 1,000 feet are able to glide and make 180º turns for half an hour or more before gently touching down on some beach.

 

[Ugliest1]

I don't know about that. Having just seen "Dunkirk", I'm pretty sure that airplanes that have lost all power at just 1,000 feet are able to glide and make 180º turns for half an hour or more before gently touching down on some beach.

Ha! That brings to mind the latest Spiderman movie with Tony Stark's "you can now remove your hands from the wheel" Audi.

 

[AceSkywalker]

We are in agreement. Honestly the problem is less of the person who dramatically insists that M3 control system is going to kill people and much more with people that continue to insist that the M3 control system is not only as good as a traditional setup but superior.

There have been a lot of snarky comments from people showing the seemingly cluttered cockpits of German luxury sedans (and how terrible it is compared to a tablet) and I would have to guess that none of those people have tried to adjust a control in the car while cruising the Autobahn at 100+ MPH where even a glance away from the road can be fatal.

As far as Elon's comments about how instrument clusters are meaningless because they aren't in taxicabs, well, some of us DO want to drive our cars because there is enjoyment in driving, even if we might make use of the auto pilot from time to time.

Enjoyment in driving? What kind of madness is this? You're insane! /s

I'm surprised Tesla hasn't done more with voice controls, actually. I don't see why you couldn't do many things with voice to allow you to keep eyes on the road.

Voice controls are a crapshoot. It works, or it doesn't. You'd have to factor in the numerous quirks, ticks, and accents that constitute the English language. Multiply that by the numerous languages that Tesla's customers globally speak. I'm California born and raised - Apple and Google's voice assistant features still mix up "dad" and "dang", "Papa" and "purpose", "fox" and "fax", "controller" and "computer" and so on and so forth. I try to use it with Spanish and Japanese, two languages I'm very proficient at, it doesn't know what the hell I'm trying to say.

Not to mention I and many others find it embarrassing to use said voice control features in public, or anywhere for that matter.

 

[gambit48]

We are in agreement. Honestly the problem is less of the person who dramatically insists that M3 control system is going to kill people and much more with people that continue to insist that the M3 control system is not only as good as a traditional setup but superior.

There have been a lot of snarky comments from people showing the seemingly cluttered cockpits of German luxury sedans (and how terrible it is compared to a tablet) and I would have to guess that none of those people have tried to adjust a control in the car while cruising the Autobahn at 100+ MPH where even a glance away from the road can be fatal.

As far as Elon's comments about how instrument clusters are meaningless because they aren't in taxicabs, well, some of us DO want to drive our cars because there is enjoyment in driving, even if we might make use of the auto pilot from time to time.

Exactly. The main problem is claiming this system is superior or that people won't even need an instrument cluster at all. Tesla might produce a working fully autonomous autopilot for the 3, but it's much more likely that the government won't get around passing regulations for its use until long after you've given up your Model 3 for a newer model.

This system isn't going to kill anyone. It's just not superior to existing systems. Other cars have tried to remove nearly every button. They basically get horribly reviews for ergonomics. At best, they're just annoying as they lack the haptic feedback of a physical button so you can't do it blind with muscle memory. You actually have to glance over.

The best systems seem to be a combo of mostly screen pushes with a few buttons (typically radio and full climate control). My Lexus is close, and it's old. It just needs physical fan speed buttons. I'm sure there's a couple buttons that could be removed into the screen menu.

 

[seattlite2004]

I drove a colleagues Prius Prime yesterday and I really liked the center window belt info screens and the HUD. The HUD was REALLY NICE. All info for driving/automobile situational awareness is right in front of you and you dont have to drop your your eyes down and hunt for the needed info....that is if you care about speed, driving efficiency, NAV, etc.

 

[Ugliest1]

Exactly. The main problem is claiming this system is superior or that people won't even need an instrument cluster at all. Tesla might produce a working fully autonomous autopilot for the 3, but it's much more likely that the government won't get around passing regulations for its use until long after you've given up your Model 3 for a newer model.

This system isn't going to kill anyone. It's just not superior to existing systems. Other cars have tried to remove nearly every button. They basically get horribly reviews for ergonomics. At best, they're just annoying as they lack the haptic feedback of a physical button so you can't do it blind with muscle memory. You actually have to glance over.

The best systems seem to be a combo of mostly screen pushes with a few buttons (typically radio and full climate control). My Lexus is close, and it's old. It just needs physical fan speed buttons. I'm sure there's a couple buttons that could be removed into the screen menu.

I agree with some of what you're saying, however I also think that this system is not all that much inferior to existing systems. And given the simplicity to manufacture (bringing more affordable and compelling EVs to more people quickly) and the ability to change/add new features over the air (yes, even including new "buttons" overnight!), in my view overall it's a step forward.

 

[electracity]

In a year the AP2 cars should be very good at not hitting things when we are not paying attention. This will make screen time safer. Most of us already know we spend too much time looking at the nav screen when we are confused or changing destinations. Level 3 ish AP makes this behavior, and even texting, reasonably safe.

So I think we are nearing a period where messing with our phone is O.K. High risk behavior will no longer be texting, but watching videos while driving. But even video watching will be much safer than today.

Even within a semi-autonomous driving environment I think most people will prefer the touch screen. Or at least people who find driving vehicles with autonomous features desirable.

 

[3Victoria]

Yes, I agree, 3's screen may be slightly worse or slightly better depending on one's viewpoint. However, it was immensely useful to Tesla since it was cheaper, less complex, speeded build, allows development of UI and car in parallel, allows OTA updates.

The two scroll wheels with two sideways switches and push-switch should allow control over common functions. Hopefully these will be able to be customized, so perhaps the right one controls music/phone, and the left controls heat/AC, for example.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Enjoyment in driving? What kind of madness is this? You're insane! /s



Voice controls are a crapshoot. It works, or it doesn't. You'd have to factor in the numerous quirks, ticks, and accents that constitute the English language. Multiply that by the numerous languages that Tesla's customers globally speak. I'm California born and raised - Apple and Google's voice assistant features still mix up "dad" and "dang", "Papa" and "purpose", "fox" and "fax", "controller" and "computer" and so on and so forth. I try to use it with Spanish and Japanese, two languages I'm very proficient at, it doesn't know what the hell I'm trying to say.

Not to mention I and many others find it embarrassing to use said voice control features in public, or anywhere for that matter.

I'm surprised how well my voice commands work in my F150 with the sync3. 9 times out of 10 it nails random addresses on the first try. The 1 time the addie is in a list it presents. Easy peasy.

I'm sure it can do more complex tasks but the simple ones are the best...
Destination home, destination work... POI(business name). Sirius 59,
Call dad, call wifey... Love it.

 

[gregincal]

This system isn't going to kill anyone. It's just not superior to existing systems. Other cars have tried to remove nearly every button. They basically get horribly reviews for ergonomics. At best, they're just annoying as they lack the haptic feedback of a physical button so you can't do it blind with muscle memory. You actually have to glance over.

Gee, I don't remember the Model S getting horrible reviews. I remember it getting stellar reviews. Personally I far prefer using it's touch screen over my wife's Honda console.

 

[JeffK]

Call dad, call wifey... Love it.

It's all fun and games until it accidentally calls your wife when you meant to call your girlfriend.

 

[JonathanD]

Gee, I don't remember the Model S getting horrible reviews. I remember it getting stellar reviews. Personally I far prefer using it's touch screen over my wife's Honda console.

If anything, the Model 3 screen should be even easier as the stalk it is mounted on brings it closer to the driver's hands.