Is anyone going to order a 2wheel drive model S?

[green1]

You sound like someone that has never felt asphalt at 140F or higher.

If I try to drive winter tires year round they'll last maybe 10,000 miles and I'll be replacing them before a year is up.

I'm not advocating for year round, I'm advocating for winter. You also apparently haven't met modern winter tires, they'll last just fine.

seriously I have need of winter tires 0 to 7 days a year. If I had money to burn I'd be more likely to have Summer tires and All season tires as a two set rotation than I would to have Summer + Winter or All Season + Winter. But honestly I don't have the money to burn on buying extra rims and tires. All Seasons literally are good enough here.

It's fine if you don't actually need winter tires, but you said you do need AWD, and that's just not true. There's no place on this planet where that's true. RWD with winter tires always beats AWD without, and RWD with winter tires can handle the winters in any city on the planet.

 

[Canuck]

There's no place on this planet where that's true. RWD with winter tires always beats AWD without, and RWD with winter tires can handle the winters in any city on the planet.

Well then my driveway at my cabin must not be on this planet. When I first got my Tahoe Hybrid in 2008 it had good new tires (but not winter tires) so my first winter I didn't get winter tires (stupid, yes). Of course, it wouldn't make it up my unplowed driveway unless put in AWD -- then it did without a problem. Then when I got snow tires the next year, it still wouldn't make it out without putting it in AWD. So RWD with winter tires were out performed by AWD without snow tires. Same vehicle and brand new snow tires. That happens a lot in my cabin driveway which is in the Southern BC mountains (this is prime snowmobile territory where we get a ton of snow). Just turning the dial to AWD makes a world of difference. At least it does in my driveway, which last time I checked was on this planet.

 

[green1]

Well then my driveway at my cabin must not be on this planet. When I first got my Tahoe Hybrid in 2008 it had good new tires (but not winter tires) so my first winter I didn't get winter tires (stupid, yes). Of course, it wouldn't make it up my unplowed driveway unless put in AWD -- then it did without a problem. Then when I got snow tires the next year, it still wouldn't make it out without putting it in AWD. So RWD with winter tires were out performed by AWD without snow tires. Same vehicle and brand new snow tires. That happens a lot in my cabin driveway which is in the Southern BC mountains (this is prime snowmobile territory where we get a ton of snow). Just turning the dial to AWD makes a world of difference. At least it does in my driveway, which last time I checked was on this planet.

You need better winter tires.

 

[CHG-ON]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE the RWD! I haven't broken out my rear end for ten years or so. There's nothing better! All due to owning fantastic AWD cars for so long now, which I love. But boy oh boy is it fun to get that little squirm when I punch the go pedal. Wouldn't trade it for anything. It's a lovely negotiation between power and reason.

But I'm lucky in that i still have an awesome AWD for those days that need it.

 

[Canuck]

You need better winter tires.

I had top rated name brand snow tires with the snow icon rating. I can't recall the exact brand but I researched the tire and read the reviews before I got them at Kal-Tire where I buy all my tires. Also, I don't care what tires you have on a 2WD vehicle after a large snowfall you won't get out of my steep driveway. I had a friend visit for a weekend with a 2WD and luckily he had chains because it had snowed overnight and he wasn't going anywhere until he put the chains on. And even with chains it was difficult to get him onto the main road. After my first couple of winters, I got a good ATV and plow, and I keep lots of dry sand in bins that I mix with salt, so that 2WD vehicles can make it in and out.

I lived 3 years in Calgary. Your roads are mostly flat and its much drier. You rarely get really difficult snow conditions like we do in the interior mountains. 2WD vehicles are out of their league regardless of what types of tires they have, and can only make it around with chains.

 

[David_Cary]

I live in the south and I'll get AWD and I never thought I would say that.

Reasons: range, efficiency, tire life since I can't be trusted to not plant it sometimes - each tire is seeing 1/2 the torque in full acceleration settings. The wear shouldn't just be more even, it should be less.

I've lived in Buffalo and I had snow tires (RX-7). I'm not sure we could find them down here and would be tricky on a road trip if you needed to replace one. In the South, traction matters a lot when it snows. The average speed is 5 mph so braking is a minor issue. Not making it up a hill is a major issue. The asphalt probably gets pretty hot for winter tires even in the winter.

We had a recent snow disaster here. Most of the cars lined up stranded were BMWs and MBs - RWD. I told people the shoulders were like luxury car showrooms. Were I live we get significant snow every 5 years and there is gridlock. Certainly not worth snow tires. But it does add value for AWD (not worth it for me if it wasn't for the other benefits).

 

[aronth5]

Actually no. the AWD may give a false sense of security, but it won't stop or turn as well as RWD with winter tires. There's a good reason that the AWD and 4x4s are the ones in the ditch in the winter, it's because many people mistakenly believe that AWD is enough and that they don't need winter tires.

Juggling a second set of rims and tires is easy, it's not expensive, and it might just save your life. For anyone in a climate that gets temperatures below freezing for more than a couple days a year there's no good excuse not to.

Here in Massachusetts were the average snow fall in Boston is about 42" and where I live around 60" you will find very few people buy snow tires. Most rationalize that with either FWD or AWD they are not needed in spite of their value.

 

[muleferg]

I will be getting S85 2WD. In georgia no clear need for AWD although added 30 miles of range is tempting. Also AWD would mean delivery in 2015 and thus losing georgia state EV credit worth $5000. So that would be a delta of $9000!!

I charged my S85 full this Thursday. The most I have ever charged full was 272mi. After 6.0 it charged to 305. I woke up and took this photo after driving a mile

 

[Bighorn]

I charged my S85 full this Thursday. The most I have ever charged full was 272mi. After 6.0 it charged to 305. I woke up and took this photo after driving a mile

View attachment 61281

Did you get switched from rated to ideal miles somehow?

 

[green1]

Here in Massachusetts were the average snow fall in Boston is about 42" and where I live around 60" you will find very few people buy snow tires. Most rationalize that with either FWD or AWD they are not needed in spite of their value.

Here too, many people drive on all season tires, they rationalize it in all sorts of ways, but it doesn't make it the right choice. With our unpredictable weather, the right choice in Calgary is all seasons in the summer, and winter tires in the winter. Unfortunately people don't always make the best decisions in this area. At the other end of the country, in Quebec, the government got tired of the costs these people inflict on society every winter in the form of injury, death, and dams a age, nor to mention emergency responders and traffic jams, they made winter tires mandatory. There has been talk here of doing the same, but I doubt it will actually happen, we have s much more conservative population here who trends to see that as too "nanny state"

 

[breser]

I charged my S85 full this Thursday. The most I have ever charged full was 272mi. After 6.0 it charged to 305. I woke up and took this photo after driving a mile

See the 6.0 thread. This happens every software release. The algorithm briefly shows more range for a while and then settles back to roughly where it was.

 

[Sebvelez]

December delivery of S85. No need for AWD in Miami. Happy with the D announcement, even though not changing order! Keeps the Model S relevant to non-owners and expands the customer base up north.

 

[nearlysober]

I'm sticking with 2 wheel drive, confirmed my build on 10/02.

I have no real need for AWD. Sure it gets icy/snowy occasionally here, and when that happens I work from home. Seattle drivers are terrible in the snow, doesn't matter how good you or your car is, I wouldn't take it out on the snow around here.

 

[Sebvelez]

Confirmed 10/02 as well (my birthday treat!) I'm sure you'll see yours first though. Let's hope the P85D orders don't delay ours.

 

[3mp_kwh]

Took delivery ~3 days into rumors about new sensors/Mobileye and 2 days before "almost time for D". To us in MA, AWD is better, but its too flat and rarely snows deep enough for AWD to really have it over 2WD w/snows. That said, I never would have guessed auto-pilot would be free (perhaps eventually with ACC, etc), and AWD was going to be both 6+ months ahead of Model X, and cost about what Tesla charges for snow tires!?!?. Oh, yeah, "D-Gate" is on

There are a lot of drivers who prefer the handling characteristics of a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Yes, I agree and maybe you and I could go back and forth about that, but you know that's a tiny minority. Even BMW, former paragon of RWD, doesn't sell close to half its cars that way. At this price, an 85% Tesla AWD order rate actually does seem reasonable. In fact, I think one could take the arguement that not changing an S85 order will be just as expensive, if you should need to turn around and sell (not counting the deposit loss). It's certainly going to be a long time before demand balances out.

 

[Thud]

AWD would be useful in regions where there's a lot of snowy weather. It's great to have that option and the extra range doesn't hurt (though EPA ratings are still unknown yet).

Some of us like RWD driving dynamics though. With the P85D you can get a nice rear bias due to the more powerful rear motor, but with the regular 85D and 60D you'll never get more than 50% power to the rear.

 

[CHG-ON]

AWD would be useful in regions where there's a lot of snowy weather. It's great to have that option and the extra range doesn't hurt (though EPA ratings are still unknown yet).

Some of us like RWD driving dynamics though. With the P85D you can get a nice rear bias due to the more powerful rear motor, but with the regular 85D and 60D you'll never get more than 50% power to the rear.

I live in CA near the coast, so AWD really is never "needed". But I love the handling characteristics when screaming around mountain roads in my CUV Acura RDX (I did modify her a fair amount). I think mainly because it helps to mitigate the high center of gravity. It also has torque vectoring, which really does make a big difference. But I am really happy to finally have an RWD car again. The big challenge for me now is that I need to drive each car very differently, which is a bit hard to get used to. With the TV AWD, I hit the gas much earlier in a turn than with with an RWD, because the TV literally pushes you out of the corner from the outside wheel. It's pretty cool. With non TV, I hit the gas at about 70% through the turn rather than 50% with the TV. I can't really say one is better than the other, but coming out too fast and too early in a non TV car could be quite a bummer.

The other nice thing about AWD is when you plant it, it simply goes, no drama. Of course with traction control being what it is today, this is not that big of a deal anymore. Certainly used to be.