As I had mentioned above, my Model 3 on autopilot always brakes when it sees an intrusion into its lane, even a slight one.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Is Autopilot at fault in this accident?
- Thread starter DanCar
- Start date
As I had mentioned above, my Model 3 on autopilot always brakes when it sees an intrusion into its lane, even a slight one.
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
I wasn't talking about the OP's question. I was talking about the person who posted that we should just slow down and let the other vehicle in and if you thought the truck was at fault (legally, it was) then somehow you were also against their point. As if they were somehow mutually exclusive or something and you couldn't agree with both. This further illustrates my point of why their off topic post was distracting because you thought my response to them was somehow a response to the OP of this thread.
sperkin
Active Member
Not with semis like that. It sees the cab changing lines far enough ahead which had room so the car wouldn't brake. I don't drive to work anymore so I can't get a video example. I have tried 1 to 7 gap settings and none of them work correctly for semis. My conclusion is AP don't forecast the trailer that will be merging in later. AP may slam on the brakes, but I always cancel AP so I gradually reduce speed. I don't want to risk it like this guy did. He either waited for AP to slam the brakes or he was watching his phone and didn't even see this.
That's interesting bcos my model 3 does not. I was just on a trip a few weeks ago and on a main hiway (I-5) for trucks. My model 3 would move slightly to the left when a truck would encroach on my lane from the right, such as going over the bot dots/lane lines, but never once did AP/EAP hit the brakes.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised this question needs to be asked.
Autopilot is not at fault because Autopilot is only a driver's aide and the driver is fully responsible for the car's trajectory.
The driver is not at fault because he had the right-of-way.
The truck driver is 100% at fault because he moved into an occupied lane. He was also tailgating the car in front of the truck.
Do you have any questions that are more difficult than that?
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Are you trying to say that the larger vehicle doesn't automatically have the right-of-way? That size doesn't matter?
/s just kidding!
68882
Member
68882
Member
As a new Tesla owner I’d say AutoPilot
Is not 100% trustworthy for edge cases. It just might do the wrong thing. Here we are building trust, but if I’ve never seen it respond to the current situation I’d keep on my toes to confirm it won’t make a bad choice. Other situations it has shown to react better than the driver, but that is no excuse for not doing active monitoring of it’s behavior.
Is not 100% trustworthy for edge cases. It just might do the wrong thing. Here we are building trust, but if I’ve never seen it respond to the current situation I’d keep on my toes to confirm it won’t make a bad choice. Other situations it has shown to react better than the driver, but that is no excuse for not doing active monitoring of it’s behavior.
May I ask what you would program AP to do in such situations? (if you were a programmer)
In your scenario the accident still happens and your car is off the road being repaired - but hey, its the other guys fault so its all ok.
Slowing down to let the car/truck change lanes doesn't change the fault, it just stops the accident from happening.
The whole "fault" thing boggles my mind.
Realistically, if you don't slow down to let them in, the other guy is obviously at fault - but if you could have prevented it and allowed it to happen anyway are you really free from guilt? Or is pride so important?
Indeed, but the OP question was about fault, that is who is legally responsible for causing the accident. Sure, it would have been great if AP had avoided the accident (or the human driver for that matter), but that doesn't mean either AP or the human were at fault in the legal sense. Of course in many cases it takes two cars to make an accident, but that doesn't mean both parties are at fault (though they may be).
I was thinking fault as in a more general sense, responsibility and or unattractive or unsatisfactory feature. In my opinion there is plenty of fault in autopilot in this scenario. I'll try to word future topics more appropriately. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Legally not at fault, but from the driver's point of view, yes.
In other words, the autopilot is expected to (a) drive legally, but also to (b) protect people.
In other words, the autopilot is expected to (a) drive legally, but also to (b) protect people.
Understood, and yes, AP could have done better (as could the driver). But sitting at home watching a video its easy to say that, and we all think we would have done better, buy you never really know until you are faced with an actual emergency situation.
The reality, of course, is that AP, however good it gets, will still make mistakes, and while each mistake can be used to improve it, it will never be perfect. The (not unrealistic) hope, however, is that it will rapidly become statistically better than human drivers, which to my mind is a pretty low bar anyway.
From a liability perspective it's likely the insurance companies determined it was 100% the truck drivers fault. I can't see any liability being on the driver, and by design no liability can be on AP in this accident as AP didn't cause the accident.
From a defensive driving perspective its a hard one. If I was in that situation I may or I may have not let the semi trailer in. I tend to be against using turn signals as a request unless I absolutely have to. I prefer to leave them off until I actually intend to indicate I'm changing lanes. My preference for turn signals is "I think most coast is clear, and I'm going to go over" that way I know not to ignore the turn signal.
As to AP I think it ultimately comes down to a need to make a decision based on this distance between you, and the car in front of you that determines whether you give way to someone wanting to change lanes in front of you.
I've seen lots of people hit the accelerator to try to prevent the person from changing lanes, and that's really a-hole behavior.
What I want from AP is consistent behavior more than anything else.
From a defensive driving perspective its a hard one. If I was in that situation I may or I may have not let the semi trailer in. I tend to be against using turn signals as a request unless I absolutely have to. I prefer to leave them off until I actually intend to indicate I'm changing lanes. My preference for turn signals is "I think most coast is clear, and I'm going to go over" that way I know not to ignore the turn signal.
As to AP I think it ultimately comes down to a need to make a decision based on this distance between you, and the car in front of you that determines whether you give way to someone wanting to change lanes in front of you.
I've seen lots of people hit the accelerator to try to prevent the person from changing lanes, and that's really a-hole behavior.
What I want from AP is consistent behavior more than anything else.
I think along the same lines. I don't like it when a truck driver switches on the indicator while I'm overtaking. I never do that. I only switch on the indicator when I seriously intend to change lanes within the next few seconds. And, by the way, I always indicate for at least two seconds before actually steering, just as FSD does.
However, being very safety-conscious, I nearly always give way, brake, or change to another lane when somebody indicates intrusion into my lane. I act as if the indicator conveyed the right of way. I don't see roads as a competition arena. My motto is: safety first. I have been rewarded by decades of accident-free driving (and low insurance premiums). I pay for it by sacrificing a little time.
Similar threads
