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Is Bolt better than Honda HRV?

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Vitold, Apr 16, 2016.

  1. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    We know that Tesla Model S has the aspiration to compete with sedans such as BMW 3 series. Not much is being said about ICE cars that Bolt trying to compete with?

    Here are dimensions of Honda HRV vs Bolt:

    BoltVsHRV.JPG
     
  2. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    You're right - you don't see much information about the ICE cars GM wants the Bolt to compete with.

    I suspect that's related to GM's message on the car. As a rather insightful article i saw recently contrasting the two pointed out, GM's message hasn't been 'this is better than those ICE cars' but more 'this will be the best electric car.'

    GM isn't looking to steal buyers from ICE cars - they just want to be the first choice of buyers who are explicitly looking for an electric car (and presumably can't afford a Tesla.)

    Seen from this perspective, a lot of their decisions make more sense - including the failure to develop a DCFC network.

    (Of course, that still leaves Tesla a much better choice for anyone who really does want an electric car, but apparently that hasn't sunk in at GM yet.)
     
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  3. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    If you drive within the Bolts practical range, yes.
     
  4. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Both have 56 cu ft for cargo. Both seat 5.

    One has been clocked at 0-60 mph = 9.5 seconds. One will apparently be quite a bit quicker.

    One has a long hood, hence requires more parking room.

    One gets barely better fuel economy than a pickup truck. One is electric.

    One has GM digital controls, one is a Honda.
     
  5. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    #5 Jeff N, Apr 16, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
    I'm not sure how failing to participate in developing a DCFC network is consistent with appealing to be the first choice of buyers looking for an electric car. :)

    I still suspect that GM will pull the:

    * "it's a series hybrid"

    * "we're only making hybrids that plugin"

    switcheroo act like they did with the Volt and Malibu hybrid and suddenly announce the product they had been denying all along.

    I don't expect them to build a GM-branded CCS station network but I do think they will end up materially participating in some multi-company effort to seed interstate CCS charging infrastructure.
     
  6. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    It isn't, exactly. What I was trying to say is that GM seems to be much more focused on the car compared to existing alternatives EVs than the new EV ecosystem or what it would take to make the car compete with ICE cars on equal terms. Or at least, that's my impression - I thought this Yahoo article was especially interesting in that regard:

    The Chevy Bolt-Tesla Model 3 Rivalry Is Bullshit
     
  7. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    I reckon that GM's target audience are existing Leaf owners and other limited range EV drivers look to get more range.
    They can't possibly build out a network quickly enough to compete with Tesla now, so they're going for the owners who don't need the supercharger network - which is why they can only expect to sell 30-50K cars a year.
    Remember that they aren't looking to compete against their ICE cars, only in what they see as the limited EV market.
    By the time the Model 3 reveal part two is over, Tesla is likely to have way north of 500K orders, ten times the number that GM expect to sell.
    If GM underestimate Bolt demand, it will take them a very long time to ramp up.
     
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    Do LEAF owners view the Bolt as a worthy alternative ?
     
  9. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    No. I bought a Leaf because they're ridiculously cheap, and available here. The Bolt would be more expensive, but I'd still only be able to go the same distance outside of the Metro...because there are no DCFC chargers (outside of the city) in my "fly over" State.
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    If you are right then the basket of cross-shoppers between the Bolt and some other car is shrinking rapidly. Perhaps the Chevy Volt ?

    Having seen some of GM marketing, I could believe a thinly veiled attempt to confuse their customers between the two cars.
     
  11. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    #11 JohnSnowNW, Apr 16, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
    I was initially looking at the Volt...same problem with cost though. The Leaf SV is $250/month,$1,000 down payment, 12k miles/yr. The Volt LT was $400/month, 3k down payment, 10k miles/month.

    The Volt is easily the better deal when compared to the Bolt, but not everyone buys vehicles with value as the leading determinate. That said, some States have better charging infrastructure, and more incentives.
     
  12. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    I know what you mean on that. The charge opportunities are improving in my area but I tend to stay within the 50% range of my car unless I do pre-planning. But most of the places I want to drive to have no charging, so I end up going ICE.
    Getting a Bolt for me would open up the area in reach, even with most charging done at home.
    The main reason I'm going Model 3 instead is that I don't want a Sonic EV or a Leaf type car any more - I want an Audi or BMW equivalent.
    And also something that is performance forward like Tesla ("we don't make slow cars") rather than economy forward like Chevy.
    [edited for stupid spelling mistakes]
     
  13. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    I think people with 200+ mile battery packs are going to want to drive them on the interstate and will want CCS stations there even if that wasn't their original prime motivation for choosing the car.
     
  14. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly what I see. And this strategy is what most large automakers use when designing EVs. Rather than competing in the overall car market (as Tesla is doing), they compete inside a smaller "EV market". When you view things through this lens, the design decisions and target volume (30k-50k) makes sense. The Bolt would be a perfect tool to steal sales from the Leaf, but it might not steal many sales from ICE cars.
     
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  15. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    Yet, if Bolt is competing with Leafs, Soul EVs, etc it does NOT have to have >200mile range. If you want all around town EV - 150 mile range is plenty (including heating and AC).

    I think that GM is calculating that government will build needed infrastructure for them. Just like by advertising Bolt price "after incentives" GM is putting pressure to extend EV incentives.
     
  16. Jbailey

    Jbailey Member

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    Looks to me like GM is going after the Ford Fiesta not Tesla. The Bolt looks to have the same HP, 0-60 time and general body shape as the Ford Fiesta. Its a bit more expensive though. Maybe with the gas money savings current Ford Fiesta drivers can afford to switch over...unless they pull it like they did the EV-1 that is.
     
  17. langit

    langit Member

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    has been bookmark, this seems like a very interesting thread
     
  18. montreid

    montreid Member

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    This is what we're hoping for if the interior specs bear out and able to dump our ICE CR-V and combine with the Fiat 500e+SparkEV.

    Range anxiety for local metro daily hauls will be resolved with the 200+ mile EV that our SparkEV simply doesn't handle the 'soccer parent' family car duties where our 500e is too small for the family+dog.

    While the supercharger network is nice, traditional car companies will rely on energy companies (or retailers if mass adoption does occur) to provide the network. If I'm going to go on a 100+ mile trip, I'm looking for destinations -- not 1-2 hour pitstops in no-where. The concept of sitting along the highway for even for 1 hour is a head scratcher to me. Major retailer/malls will install chargers in mass if it makes sense to draw in customers. Here in San Diego, many mall retailers already doing so to get to green compliance status.

    Model 3 will replace hopefully replace the G37 and that leaves only the MiniVan that's not electrified.
     
  19. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    I have long suspected that the Chevrolet BOLT was conceived as a direct competitor to the Honda FIT EV. But Honda killed the FIT EV before the BOLT was officially announced. I still believe that the BOLT was originally going to be an ICE car, but when Tesla Motors became popular, GM hastily decided to release it as an EV instead.
     

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