Is Chinese Model 3 built like Y?

[tpoltron]

Hello All. While bored at home I’ve been watching too much stuff like Munro’s Model Y tear down videos. They got me wondering if the Made In China Model 3 benefitted from any of the changes that make the Y easier to manufacture. It would be easy to check if:
- there are only spot welds, no sinusoidal under front door weather seal along the top
- a plastic trunk well
- a big casting visible behind the rear wheels.

I wonder if they will bring any of this to the Fremont 3 line while the factory is shut?

 

[BluestarE3]

That's a good question and it'll take someone who has access to a MIC Model 3 to tear it down (maybe not to the level of Munro) before we will know the answer. I'd also be interested in knowing if the Shanghai Model 3 assembly line is more automated than the one in Fremont as the result of what they've learned and implemented on the Model Y.

 

[Mr. Big]

Munro tore down an early-build Model 3 so I'm wondering if Fremont had made any running changes in the manufacturing of later Model 3s in the subsequent years since 2017.

 

[Zoomit]

Munro tore down an early-build Model 3 so I'm wondering if Fremont had made any running changes in the manufacturing of later Model 3s in the subsequent years since 2017.

I’m sure the build process and part changes numbers in the thousands. A far, far majority are never seen by consumers.

 

[Dolemite]

My US-made P3D- built 7/2019 does not have any sinusoidal welds and the spacing of the spot welds is pretty even. You can see this for yourself by simply yanking down on the gasket around the door - it's just pressure fitted. It also doesn't have zip-tied ingots on the upper A-arms but instead has torx like the Model Y. Although Munro himself said there's nothing wrong with the zip ties - they're just way more expensive from a manufacturing standpoint. Also the fit & finish of mine is pretty dead-on - definitely nothing to write home about.

Rear-end appears the same - just looking through the wheel well you can see that a lot of different parts came together. Would be interesting to see if they changed this on the Chinese TM3.

What I'm most interested in is whether any of the theoretical changes make the car any lighter...

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

My US-made P3D- built 7/2019 does not have any sinusoidal welds and the spacing of the spot welds is pretty even. You can see this for yourself by simply yanking down on the gasket around the door - it's just pressure fitted. It also doesn't have zip-tied ingots on the upper A-arms but instead has torx like the Model Y. Although Munro himself said there's nothing wrong with the zip ties - they're just way more expensive from a manufacturing standpoint. Also the fit & finish of mine is pretty dead-on - definitely nothing to write home about.

Rear-end appears the same - just looking through the wheel well you can see that a lot of different parts came together. Would be interesting to see if they changed this on the Chinese TM3.

What I'm most interested in is whether any of the theoretical changes make the car any lighter...

Maybe not lighter by much, but reduced manufacturing complexity ultimately means less cost.

The question is whether Tesla in Fremont will be able to take advantage of the COVID-19 break in manufacturing to retrofit some of the Model Y construction techniques to the Model 3 and reduce its cost accordingly? Knocking 5% to 10% off the cost of the Model 3 coming out of this break would be pretty damn neat.

 

[BluestarE3]

The question is whether Tesla in Fremont will be able to take advantage of the COVID-19 break in manufacturing to retrofit some of the Model Y construction techniques to the Model 3 and reduce its cost accordingly? Knocking 5% to 10% off the cost of the Model 3 coming out of this break would be pretty damn neat.

That's my thought as well. If they haven't already implemented those improvements on the Model 3 line, this is the perfect time to do so since production is already stopped.

 

[user212_nr]

So Tesla is constantly making changes to their production line, however, it makes the most sense to leave existing production lines as they are and to make the changes on new production lines. Some exceptions of course, including the current shutdown.

There is a good saying: Do not fix what is not broken.

Model Y has some really fundamental and experimental improvements, like full body casting, wiring changes that cannot be brought easily to the 3.

I think a few minor things like adding the plastic trunk box sound likely.

 

[hmmwv]

There is an official Tesla video on Youtube posted by Jason Yang that shows the inside of the GF3, very short but pretty interesting, one thing I noted is that dash install at GF3 is a manual process (manually guided jig) while it's with robots at Fremont.

 

[user212_nr]

There is an official Tesla video on Youtube posted by Jason Yang that shows the inside of the GF3, very short but pretty interesting, one thing I noted is that dash install at GF3 is a manual process (manually guided jig) while it's with robots at Fremont.

Interesting. No doubt due to cheap labor with no opportunity to unionize.

 

[Uncle Paul]

During this shut down, not only is Tesla refreshing their assembly process, but their suppliers are also working like crazy to improve each of their individual items. Glass will be getting improved, cooling compressor getting a cover, software engineers working on various improvments, battery manufacturing technology and chemistry improving.

Work is still progressing on the Plaid performance options, Cybertruck finished engineering, New Coupe moving forward, Semi getting closer to production etc. Imagine lots of new facillites are in the process of getting approved and regulatory hurdles being leaped.

They are not sitting on their hands during this shut down. Will start up better, faster, much improved.

Perhaps even a new tow hitch option

 

[Tessaract]

So Tesla is constantly making changes to their production line, however, it makes the most sense to leave existing production lines as they are and to make the changes on new production lines. Some exceptions of course, including the current shutdown.

There is a good saying: Do not fix what is not broken.

Model Y has some really fundamental and experimental improvements, like full body casting, wiring changes that cannot be brought easily to the 3.

I think a few minor things like adding the plastic trunk box sound likely.

I'm not a ModelY expert, but I would question the "full body casting" claim. There may be numerous cast pieces that are bonded or welded together, but I think it would nigh on impossible to actually cast a complete body.

 

[user212_nr]

I'm not a ModelY expert, but I would question the "full body casting" claim. There may be numerous cast pieces that are bonded or welded together, but I think it would nigh on impossible to actually cast a complete body.

Yes, that is what is meant by full body casting. Its just as effective in a few pieces.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

My US-made P3D- built 7/2019 does not have any sinusoidal welds

I always love how people (not you Dolemite) will use fancy words to make simple things sound more impressive. As if there was a crack team of Math PHDs doing huge geometry equations on the board to come up with a "sinusoidal weld," LOL. They should call it what it really is: a "squiggly weld."

 

[Tessaract]

Yes, that is what is meant by full body casting. Its just as effective in a few pieces.

And the full body is also not made of cast pieces. In fact is still mostly stamped pieces.

 

[asus389]

I wonder if they will move to the heat pump on the 3.

 

[hmmwv]

Interesting. No doubt due to cheap labor with no opportunity to unionize.

It is quite interesting but probably has nothing to do with labor as it's my understanding that Gig 3 has higher level of automation than Fremont. Probably some kinks with the robots doing the work, those industrial robots need a lot of programming and calibration, it's a very time consuming process that can't simply translate from plant to plant.

 

[tpoltron]

This article talks about installing the Model Y casting machines in China. It speculates they might be used for the 3 as well - though Elon has stated that once a line is running its not usually for changing it.
Tesla poised to streamline China's Model Y production with next-gen casting machine

 

[rdunniii]

It is quite interesting but probably has nothing to do with labor as it's my understanding that Gig 3 has higher level of automation than Fremont. Probably some kinks with the robots doing the work, those industrial robots need a lot of programming and calibration, it's a very time consuming process that can't simply translate from plant to plant.

And those people who do the programming and calibration are not cheap labor. They are highly skilled labor that a lot rides on. Whether in China or the USA or anywhere else.