Is Electrify America TRYING to Ruin EVs and Adoption!?

[ModelNforNerd]

What about Stellantis, Polestar/Volvo, BMW, MB, etc. Stellantis in a good spot because they haven't really started shipping anything yet, so they can make their new RAM truck come with NACS from the start. I think they all have a decision to make...

I think Rivian is likely in a bad spot because Tesla is still in the process of suing them over alleged IP theft. Maybe if they settled that Tesla would let them use the Superchargers. (They could switch to the NACS inlet anyhow, since that is an open standard.)

I think they'll all be in a bad spot. VW doesn't seem to have as much incentive to maintain the network that they are already bad at maintaining.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Nah, they will just continue to eat up VW/federal funding. They will probably go to installing dual cable stalls with CCS/NACS. (Just after their "next gen" units went to having only a single cable.)

A charging standard is no big deal.
So many dual-standard chargers out there already. EA has some.

I foresee retrofitting.

 

[Exelion]

I'm guessing it's a supply chain thing. Who is building the ports? Gm and Ford respectively? Or are they purchasing pre-made? if tesla was smart, they'd spin up production of the ports and make money on that end too.

Don’t forget the wiring. It’s not a simple cut-the black-wire-then-join-it-to the-green one. Or the charging hardware/software compatibility. Not to mention having to relocate the charge port door to the driver’s side rear area. I’m pretty sure all of this to be ironed out or a whole year’s batch of cars ain’t gonna charge right, or worse, go up in flames. Two years might actually be too aggressive I think.

Tesla’s adapter from CCS1 to NACS took a long time to get released. I don’t think going the other way around is going to be easy considering these are traditional ICE carmakers we’re talking about.

 

[Earl]

God, I hope not. Putting DCFCs in Walmart parking lots was and is a terrible idea. They're not all open 24 hours a day, and if you need to use the bathroom during operating hours, you've got to hike into the back of the store. If you want food, you've got to be okay with stale donuts from the bakery case, a full size bag of chips from the grocery aisle, or a candy bar from the register. There's no single serving food available to order. While it's true that not all superchargers are in ideal locations (hotels, malls) Tesla's partnership with Sheetz and Wawa have been great for traveling resources. I'd wager it's a nice symbiotic relationship since I almost always buy something while I pull in to charge for 15-30 minutes. I almost never bought anything while filling up any of my gas vehicles.

I’m not going to say Walmart is great or even good but I’m not sure you’ve actually been in one. Often, in remote areas, they are the only option for supplies, whether processed, stale, unhealthy, made-in-China, or else. Of course, if you’re where Sheetz is, you probably don’t venture too far or frequent truly remote areas.

The bathrooms at most Walmarts I’ve been to are in the front, usually right next to the entrance.

Sheetz are definitely nice but only on the eastern seaboard of the US AFAIK so we can’t get everywhere just counting on them.

I stopped at Walmarts and used EA (CHAdeMO adapter) a few times many years ago. Then, I needed supplies, figuring the time spent foraging would best be spent charging too. However, I always found that I wasted 10 - 40 minutes trying to get the EA charging session started, or having to lay my yet-to-be-purchased items down and run back to the car to avoid the threatened idle-fees when the charger stopped after 10 minutes. These issues, coupled with only 47 KW charging, nullified any travel time advantage of trying to do both at the same time. I haven’t really bothered with an EA station much recently, at Walmart or other site.

Having Tesla (instead of an EA) reliability at a Walmart (instead of a hotel, museum, or similar, less-useful place) could actually be a big improvement when traveling across the expanses of NV, MN, AZ, UT, TX, etc.

 

[cwerdna]

I haven't read this entire thread but although I'm not a real fan of EA due VW's behavior besides their CHAdeMO sabotage (but that ship has sailed), as I mentioned at Electrify America general discussion, my use of EA in late 2022/early 2023 for a road trip was fine. Sure, quite a bit of juice wasn't from EA either...

Of the 4 sites I mentioned there, some used multiple times (e.g. Culver City), I also paid for charging at least twice in Goleta. I unfortunately can't go on many road trips due to work commitments, time and now a leased car so I can't rack up that many miles.

"I always found that I wasted 10 - 40 minutes trying to get the EA charging session started" has definitely not been my experience but that's with CCS native cars. Was great that on my last trip 3 sites were showing complimentary session, so it literally was plug and charge. No need to use their app or anything.

ARob's Spring 2022 Cross Country Bolt Trip Thread made it across the US in a Bolt. He mentions 61 EA sessions. A Chevrolet Bolt EV Set a Cannonball Run Record and No One Noticed | Torque News also made it across the US in a Bolt using mostly EA. That said, public charging that isn't Tesla Supercharging is admittedly pretty hit or miss in terms of reliability. You have to use Plugshare.

FWIW, the person who became the new EA CEO made it across the US using only EA (from Los Angeles to their HQ in Virginia): Electrify America general discussion.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

FWIW, the person who became the new EA CEO made it across the US using only EA (from Los Angeles to their HQ in Virginia): Electrify America general discussion.

I still laugh at that, because he was still the company's CTO when he made the trip. If something wasn't right, he probably had a special number to call, unlike the regular schmuck in an ID4 in 10 degree weather.

 

[beatle]

I’m not going to say Walmart is great or even good but I’m not sure you’ve actually been in one. Often, in remote areas, they are the only option for supplies, whether processed, stale, unhealthy, made-in-China, or else. Of course, if you’re where Sheetz is, you probably don’t venture too far or frequent truly remote areas.

The bathrooms at most Walmarts I’ve been to are in the front, usually right next to the entrance.

Sheetz are definitely nice but only on the eastern seaboard of the US AFAIK so we can’t get everywhere just counting on them.

I stopped at Walmarts and used EA (CHAdeMO adapter) a few times many years ago. Then, I needed supplies, figuring the time spent foraging would best be spent charging too. However, I always found that I wasted 10 - 40 minutes trying to get the EA charging session started, or having to lay my yet-to-be-purchased items down and run back to the car to avoid the threatened idle-fees when the charger stopped after 10 minutes. These issues, coupled with only 47 KW charging, nullified any travel time advantage of trying to do both at the same time. I haven’t really bothered with an EA station much recently, at Walmart or other site.

Having Tesla (instead of an EA) reliability at a Walmart (instead of a hotel, museum, or similar, less-useful place) could actually be a big improvement when traveling across the expanses of NV, MN, AZ, UT, TX, etc.

I've never been in a Walmart? That's a pretty baseless claim. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the country who has never set foot in a Walmart. Whether they are the only place to shop for certain things in remote areas is irrelevant since we're talking about charging vehicles here.

I offered Sheetz as just one example of a service station that caters to travelers with quick access to food, drink, and restrooms. Buc-ees, Wawa, Love's, and Pilot are others. I'm sure there are other similar chains further west. Installing chargers at these types of locations are very convenient as they have everything you need when stopping to fuel up. Agreed that hotels are pretty lousy as well, though Tesla seems to continue to expand in those places as well. The new supercharger in Raphine, VA, for example, is at a Comfort Inn, 1/4 mile away from the nearest amenity.

 

[Earl]

I've never been in a Walmart? That's a pretty baseless claim.

Sorry, not a claim, only a suggested possible explanation for not knowing that the restrooms are usually in front, not at the back. Perhaps just not too familiar with many?
Sheetz, in my experience is a great place to charge! Wish there were more in more places. They often actually have good food (for gas station convenience stores) unlike bucees which can be fun but Beaver Nuggets aren’t exactly health foods. Truck stops like Loves and Pilot are, of course, good for travelers since that is their business.

 

[Exelion]

Walmarts are different in different parts of the country. Many Walmarts here have fast food restaurants inside, like McDonalds, or Subway. I have been to Walmarts with bathrooms in the back of the store, and I’ve been to some with those in the front. I’ve been to Walmarts that only sold groceries., and had to walk right back out because I needed light bulbs. I’ve even been to one where groceries are on the bottom floor and general merchandise is on the second floor with escalators for the shopping carts to go from one floor to the other. Point is, Walmarts can be hugely different depending on where they are.

Definitely agree with Love’s and Pilot getting DC chargers, those are truck stops with lots of space and have lots of fast food to choose from. We don’t have Buccee’s here, i would like to see one though. I think they partnered up with Tesla and installed superchargers.

Strip malls in general are great places to have DC chargers. People shop and do things there, and while they are the car can get a charge too. I think every large strip mall should have them, and those that are smart enough to have them will get more business.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Walmarts are different in different parts of the country. Many Walmarts here have fast food restaurants inside, like McDonalds, or Subway. I have been to Walmarts with bathrooms in the back of the store, and I’ve been to some with those in the front. I’ve been to Walmarts that only sold groceries., and had to walk right back out because I needed light bulbs. I’ve even been to one where groceries are on the bottom floor and general merchandise is on the second floor with escalators for the shopping carts to go from one floor to the other. Point is, Walmarts can be hugely different depending on where they are.

Definitely agree with Love’s and Pilot getting DC chargers, those are truck stops with lots of space and have lots of fast food to choose from. We don’t have Buccee’s here, i would like to see one though. I think they partnered up with Tesla and installed superchargers.

Strip malls in general are great places to have DC chargers. People shop and do things there, and while they are the car can get a charge too. I think every large strip mall should have them, and those that are smart enough to have them will get more business.

I prefer a rest area. In, out, ready to go without the unpredictability and hassle of surface street traffic.