Yes... but more than for most other large companies, he is the voice and face of the company. He is a rare person, and I think they'd be worse off without him. Hopefully Elon gets his stuff together.
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Is Elon on drugs? Seriously.
- Thread starter IhateOPEC
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Yes... but more than for most other large companies, he is the voice and face of the company. He is a rare person, and I think they'd be worse off without him. Hopefully Elon gets his stuff together.
IgorAntarov
Member
Actually it looks like a last minute FUD spreading effort.
When nothing else works - drug use allegation comes into play.
When nothing else works - drug use allegation comes into play.
He is and while I think that that has been a big benefit to Tesla, it isn't anymore. All the over promising, tweeting about random stuff has led to a stock that has moved 3% down over a year, whereas the S&P 500 has gone up 15% over the same time period.
And Tesla actually went from producing less than 2000 Model S and X to 5000k Model 3s, w/o loosing people's interest in the S. That should be a great victory, but big investors in Tesla have greatly reduced their stakes in Tesla over the last quarter.
Sure, one could argue that's all the shorts fault, but I don't think T. Rowe Price and Fidelity listen to what some nitwit on Seeking Alpha has to say.
And I agree, if he gets his stuff together then it would be great. But I don't think Tesla would be doomed without him. There are tons of great people working at Tesla and because of them they build great products. Elon was great at painting a great vision, a narrative that attracted investors and helped Tesla to start off.
But Tesla doesn't need a narrative anymore, they have grown up, they can show what they have accomplished. They don't need a CEO that keeps promising stuff. Apple never promised the iPhone, any iPhone. They never said they will change the market, they just did it.
I don't think they need Musk anymore, at least for what he is really good at. What's left is managing a big company, with all the responsibility that comes with it. And right now it doesn't seem like Elon is the best guy for that job.
People often tell the Elon success story and it is a success story, the guy has founded multiple innovative companies! But he has never run a big company. He seems to need the drama of a startup, or launching a rocket, or near bankruptcy. Going against all odds, trying something new.
But that's not what Tesla needs right now. Soon they will be a profitable car company. Being CEO of that means a lot of work, but probably not a lot of excitement.
So maybe I am wrong about halve of this, but that's how I see it. If I could decide, I'd take J.B. as CEO and them staying a public company. Partly because I would still be able to easily invest in Tesla, partly because I think the company would run smoother and would actually be worth more.
There's certainly some truth to this. People thought Apple was doomed when Jobs passed. And they did lose some creative drive. But they've gained discipline and consistency.
I really hope he doesn't wind up a Howard Hughes-ish sort of character.
You have to admit that Musk has been certainly making that narrative a lot easier to sell. Nobody forces him to tweet nutty things in the middle of the night.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Did you read his blog post on tesla.com?
Update on Taking Tesla Private
He did inform the board first. He did reach out to the largest investors before making the announcement.
Yea I did read it and he apparently has informed the board about the idea of going private, but I'm pretty sure there was no final decision on it and he skipped a couple of steps in between.
The New York Times, yes I know the lyin NYT, so think of it what you will (this is not directed at you @HankLloydRight just people doubting the mainstream news in general) claims that the board was baffled by the move
Tesla Board Surprised by Elon Musk’s Tweet on Taking Carmaker Private
His blog post also says:
He apparently reached out to the largest shareholders the same way as he reached out to us small shareholders, via tweet. But as I found out right now, I think it would actually have been illegal to inform them before, but not sure about that.
Now to not come off wrong here, I don't think that the tweet will have any immediately bad consequences, at worst he will have to pay up to 160k to the SEC, which is nothing to him.
The main problem is that it doesn't seem like the best way to approach the topic of Tesla going private. I can't even find a public statement from PIF about this. That doesn't mean they don't want to buy, they bought up to 5% before, so they seem willing to invest in Tesla, maybe even at 420$, but this doesn't seem well planned at all. There is no time frame when this will happen, nothing.
I am far from an expert on how this should usually work, but since most of the insiders seem totally surprised by it and most are just guessing, I kind of doubt this is business as usual.
The only thing I can say for sure, is that on the one hand we have the statement of the Saudis buying stock at 420 and the stock sitting at 340. That is probably not how it should be...
HankLloydRight
No Roads
To be honest, I might also just be pissed, because I might not be able to further invest in Tesla, w/o big financial and logistic hurdles. And even worse I'd have to sell it to the Saudis. A big autocratic, sexist, monarchy that got rich by polluting the environment and causing conflict in the region.
It's good to see such a rational discussion - on such a weird thread, oddly enough!
I tried to say stuff along these lines and was called a troll.
Yup.
Right. There's a level of paranoia that's gone too far. You can't blame everything on the shorts, annoying and disruptive as they are.
This is a good description of what happened. Exactly. I tried to explain some of this on the investment thread (not nearly as well as you have) and was attacked for it. I was declared a troll, then a short.
Exactly. I've spent years heavily invested in Tesla, financially too, but most importantly an emotional investment, in the whole thing. In Elon, sustainability, belonging to something good, changing the world. The beautiful cars are just the cherry on the cake. I never felt I was a customer or a future car owner. I felt I was part of something. Elon leads this something, and he's a once in a millennium phenomenon.
I wish I could be more detached from this, like R.S., but I'm not. I haven't been a fan of anyone since I've been a teen, and I doubt I was as huge fan of anyone then as I am of Elon. Then all this stuff happened, and I came here, and was savaged for saying that I've lost confidence, and that others probably have too, and that is why the stock is where it is. I look back over the massive amount of support I've given to Elon over the years - publicly, with my real name attached, and I see how I was treated here, and I look at the events as described well by R.S., and...now what.
I tried to say stuff along these lines and was called a troll.
Yup.
Right. There's a level of paranoia that's gone too far. You can't blame everything on the shorts, annoying and disruptive as they are.
This is a good description of what happened. Exactly. I tried to explain some of this on the investment thread (not nearly as well as you have) and was attacked for it. I was declared a troll, then a short.
Exactly. I've spent years heavily invested in Tesla, financially too, but most importantly an emotional investment, in the whole thing. In Elon, sustainability, belonging to something good, changing the world. The beautiful cars are just the cherry on the cake. I never felt I was a customer or a future car owner. I felt I was part of something. Elon leads this something, and he's a once in a millennium phenomenon.
I wish I could be more detached from this, like R.S., but I'm not. I haven't been a fan of anyone since I've been a teen, and I doubt I was as huge fan of anyone then as I am of Elon. Then all this stuff happened, and I came here, and was savaged for saying that I've lost confidence, and that others probably have too, and that is why the stock is where it is. I look back over the massive amount of support I've given to Elon over the years - publicly, with my real name attached, and I see how I was treated here, and I look at the events as described well by R.S., and...now what.
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Incidentally, when people gang up like that on those who voice an opinion they don't want to hear, when they tolerate no dissent, it makes me question the quality of their investment advice. Reasoned critique makes me value a person more. Mob behavior makes me question everything.
Completely agree with everything, and feeling very similar. Especially with the investment threads. It seems like no one is questioning things anymore, and there is no room for compromise. It's a dichotomy of FUD or 100 per cent faith, and definite mob mentality.
I
Elon is now Tesla's biggest liability.
So glad I sold all my position so long ago.
So glad I sold all my position so long ago.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Here's a more balanced assessment of Elon:
Opinion | Elon Musk Is the Id of Tech
From TFA:
Make no mistake, Mr. Musk’s mind and ideas are big ones.
He has said publicly, and others agree, that he is simply exhausted and under intense pressure, and these recent mistakes will soon be forgotten. But he has been careless, and fewer people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He has tarnished his reputation by going after imagined enemies, fair critics and those who don’t wish him well with the same tweet daggers.
It’s a huge waste of time, when what he has to do to seal his status is actually to build a strong and stable company that is not just revolving around his aura, and a team that does its best work with or without him.
And, of course, delete that Twitter app off his phone. After all, can you imagine Steve Jobs tweeting?
Opinion | Elon Musk Is the Id of Tech
From TFA:
Make no mistake, Mr. Musk’s mind and ideas are big ones.
He has said publicly, and others agree, that he is simply exhausted and under intense pressure, and these recent mistakes will soon be forgotten. But he has been careless, and fewer people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He has tarnished his reputation by going after imagined enemies, fair critics and those who don’t wish him well with the same tweet daggers.
It’s a huge waste of time, when what he has to do to seal his status is actually to build a strong and stable company that is not just revolving around his aura, and a team that does its best work with or without him.
And, of course, delete that Twitter app off his phone. After all, can you imagine Steve Jobs tweeting?
Good article, though I don't agree with the term 'id'. 'Id' implies a lack of rationality. 'Heart' would be more like it. Dreamer, perhaps, dreamer on a grand scale, and with the capacity to make those dreams come true.
Elon Musk Confronts a Fateful Tesla Tweet and an ‘Excruciating’ Year
Poor guy... now I really feel sorry for him. I think he should take a brake for a year, or two. Working all the time, only sleeping on Ambien, he seems burnt out. Another 5 years at that pace and he will be dead.
Maybe the second CEO could help, or maybe also going private, but the best solution would be a longer brake.
Launch some rockets, have a vacation with his girlfriend, meet some friends, have another vacation with his children, learn to sleep without ambien, do a little bit of boring stuff (pun intended). And after that he can come back fresh and relaxed, maybe with a more healthy work ethic. And just erase that Twitter. I'm sure he will be a happier person without it.
Poor guy... now I really feel sorry for him. I think he should take a brake for a year, or two. Working all the time, only sleeping on Ambien, he seems burnt out. Another 5 years at that pace and he will be dead.
Maybe the second CEO could help, or maybe also going private, but the best solution would be a longer brake.
Launch some rockets, have a vacation with his girlfriend, meet some friends, have another vacation with his children, learn to sleep without ambien, do a little bit of boring stuff (pun intended). And after that he can come back fresh and relaxed, maybe with a more healthy work ethic. And just erase that Twitter. I'm sure he will be a happier person without it.
Elon is sleep deprived (by his own admission), which can be just as mind alterning (in a negative way) than being under influence. His sleep schedule is messed up to the point that he needs medical help to sleep at all. He acknowledges the negative impacts on his personal life and it's pretty plausible the negative impacts on his professional life are just as severe but he can't let that out in rare interviews for obvious reasons.
Ambien is highly addictive and would explain weird tweets pretty straightforwardly. It'd be nice for Elon -- who has done AMAZING things -- to get some rest and recovery with his phone off. Turn over come logistical stuff to the suits in the time being.
Also, thank you for the reasoned discussion in this thread. Delight to read.
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