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Is FSD holding anyone back from new refreshed S?

quickstrike12

Member
Jun 13, 2018
638
475
Fort Worth Texas
I would seriously consider getting a new long range S right now. But one key thing I keep circling back to is I paid for FSD on my car already and I really enjoy having it.
I don’t want to pay for that again on another car. I feel like it should travel with ME......NOT the car.
I think it’s 10 grand currently? And possibly moving to a subscription based method?
I’m just wondering if there are many other folks that would love to purchase a new S and this is holding them back Like me?
 

FunSecured

Member
Sep 7, 2019
110
235
Laguna Beach
I have the new refreshed S. The Yoke…actually, is fantastic and Super functional. While it’s true that it takes a minute to get used to, some of the things that those who haven’t driven it can’t appreciate yet is, for example. How incredibly convenient right and left turns indicators have become. The buttons for these are right by your left hand fingers in a way that is much less movement and so much more convenient than a turn stalk. It’s true that muscle memory has to be re-wired in this, but it actually doesn’t take long and one day, will be broadly viewed as superior, as it’s WAY less effort. In like fashion, turning on and off auto pilot/FSD is one button push and just…conveniently located/easy. Another is how the Yoke makes seeing the screen in front of the “steering wheel” a joy. No more trying to look over or under or through the wheel to see that screen and it’s just…honestly, great. Voice command access similarly easy and for me, the yoke feels like your driving s fighter jet and just feels great in your hands, matches the contemporary feel of the interior of the car and is a really good look, all of which says future …now.
 

2101Guy

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
2,058
2,564
USA
I have the new refreshed S. The Yoke…actually, is fantastic and Super functional. While it’s true that it takes a minute to get used to, some of the things that those who haven’t driven it can’t appreciate yet is, for example. How incredibly convenient right and left turns indicators have become. The buttons for these are right by your left hand fingers in a way that is much less movement and so much more convenient than a turn stalk. It’s true that muscle memory has to be re-wired in this, but it actually doesn’t take long and one day, will be broadly viewed as superior, as it’s WAY less effort. In like fashion, turning on and off auto pilot/FSD is one button push and just…conveniently located/easy. Another is how the Yoke makes seeing the screen in front of the “steering wheel” a joy. No more trying to look over or under or through the wheel to see that screen and it’s just…honestly, great. Voice command access similarly easy and for me, the yoke feels like your driving s fighter jet and just feels great in your hands, matches the contemporary feel of the interior of the car and is a really good look, all of which says future …now.
ill take your word for it.. (but still makes one wonder why the professional race car driver had it removed/replaced with a round wheel before going up pikes peak)
 

BigTonyTones

Member
Nov 28, 2016
633
533
Los Angeles
Its holding me back. I was thinking of selling mine and getting a new one but I am upset about the FSD. Paid for it and never got anything out of it. Tesla should allow a one time transfer for the original buyers that never got anything out of it. Its not like its $1k option, its $10k!!!. Very upsetting that they had promised one year when I first bought the car 4.5 years ago.

My car is still working great and I have free supercharging so I dont think Ill be upgrading unless they changed some things. No way am I paying 14k and forget subscribing.

Also I am hesitant about buying a first year model from Tesla. History shows they are riddled with issues
 

TessP100D

Member
Jan 15, 2018
440
295
La Quinta, Ca
ill take your word for it.. (but still makes one wonder why the professional race car driver had it removed/replaced with a round wheel before going up pikes peak)
FSD is a fraud. I’m feel bad for anybody who shelled out big bucks for it. honestly Tesla should refund everybody’s money. As for the refresh, the yoke and stalkless controls killed any Thought of ever buying another Tesla.
 

TessP100D

Member
Jan 15, 2018
440
295
La Quinta, Ca
I dumped my FSD-enabled vehicle and am not looking back. I learned a valuable lesson and will not be loaning Tesla money again.

As far as the refreshed S is concerned, until it has a traditional steering wheel, no sale for me.
Amen brother. It’s a sad situation and really not fair. many people purchased FSD on the promise from EM and it’s a complete fraud.

when push came to shove… Tesla had to tell the DMV that EM dreams and statements do not equal the reality of engineering. They are at level 2 and that’s it. They will never get to level 5. Never. It’s a fraud.
 

FunSecured

Member
Sep 7, 2019
110
235
Laguna Beach
ill take your word for it.. (but still makes one wonder why the professional race car driver had it removed/replaced with a round wheel before going up pikes peak)
I hear you in this. I think if you’ve driven decades and are a professional driver, then of course your “tools of the trade” have included a traditional wheel. That isn’t that weird to me that the driver would feel more comfortable with that which they know and used well / are comfortable with historically. THAT however is a different question than whether the Yoke is generally best option for Tesla and this car ans where autos are going in the future. For example…if you look at the physical design of the Yoke..it now REALLY has me wondering if there is more to the intent of this design (for the future) than what people are perceiving. What I mean is…the yoke (like some steering wheels) is able to telescope in and out and up and down…substantially so. If you look at the design of the Dashcam where the yoke feeds into if you retract it away from the driver, I can see a forward design feature where the yoke is literally tucked entirely away (to allow for FSD and much more room in drivers seat while it is tucked away). I’m wondering if this design is, in part, stage set for this evolution. That said, if your on freeways for example, the amount is turn you use is generally so minimal and honestly in those types of settings the yoke is so much more comfortable to hold and functional too. For surface streets and where you’ve sweeping turns, it’s just a matter of sorts retraining yourself in not trying to reach for something no longer there, functionally.:turning small or large isn’t a problem. The BIGGEST issue I’ve had is when I get out of the car, I didn’t realize that historically, I guess I/I will grab the top of the steering wheel to assist in my exit. Never realized I did that until the yoke.
 

FunSecured

Member
Sep 7, 2019
110
235
Laguna Beach
FSD is a fraud. I’m feel bad for anybody who shelled out big bucks for it. honestly Tesla should refund everybody’s money. As for the refresh, the yoke and stalkless controls killed any Thought of ever buying another Tesla.
First, to each his/her own and if FSD or the Yoke doesn’t work for you then…that’s what makes the world go round (different people like different things). That said, as a parallel, my daughter used to refuse to eat Pasta and said she didn’t like it. She was adamant. Until she tried it. Once she did, a while new perspective and world of Pasta eating/enjoyment/discovery opened up. Maybe this. Isn’t that for you (that’s fine), but I will tell you that for me…FSD features are ones that I use and value every single day.
Whether auto Lane changing or Navigate on Auto Pilot where it’s doing things like freeway interchanges for me or traveling on surfac streets and the vehicle minding green and res lights and traffic, or on the freeway when things are traffic ridden and sitting in traffic. ALL of it is joy. Summon on even stupid things like when your washing your car and want to clean up the tires and need to move the car to do is just a push away on your fob, or where your car is inconveniently placed to allow you to get the trash cans out. Those seem silly little things but all of these individually and jointly, for me, translate to convenience and I appreciate that, as no other vehicle does these things.
 
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TessP100D

Member
Jan 15, 2018
440
295
La Quinta, Ca
The point is FSD is a big lie. If Tesla wants to waste money on developing it for say… the next 20 years before they finally give up, fine. But dont charge people for it In advance unless it’s a 100% working system. Not some half ass beta system. It’s a Fraud as it currently stands.

if Tesla want to use the yoke and stalkless system (because of some EM dream of driverless cars) fine.. but they should be an option only. The standard Should be a real round steering wheel and a stalk controls. Standard.

these decisions by EM and Tesla are the reason I won’t buy another Tesla until he comes returns to earth.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,936
13,077
California
FSD is a joke but I don’t see any particularly strong argument why Tesla should sell it to an individual vs equip it to a car.

If it stays with the car, presumably you reap some value from it when you sell said car. Certainly not $10k because let’s face it, it’s not worth that under any circumstances - but it’s not like you got “nothing” for it.
 
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FunSecured

Member
Sep 7, 2019
110
235
Laguna Beach
The point is FSD is a big lie. If Tesla wants to waste money on developing it for say… the next 20 years before they finally give up, fine. But dont charge people for it In advance unless it’s a 100% working system. Not some half ass beta system. It’s a Fraud as it currently stands.

if Tesla want to use the yoke and stalkless system (because of some EM dream of driverless cars) fine.. but they should be an option only. The standard Should be a real round steering wheel and a stalk controls. Standard.

these decisions by EM and Tesla are the reason I won’t buy another Tesla until he comes returns to earth.
So, again ..your opinion is yours to be entitled to and I’m simply sharing my experience from having had Full Self Driving on a 3, a Y, and S from 2018 and a refreshed S now. What I can tell you is that I don’t subscribe to it being lie and rather, DO subscribe to their portrayal that the entirety of it is and remains Beta versions that they’re using the Tesla community to help Tesla continue to move in the right direction in refining and iterating until such time as true autonomy is achieved. All that said, what I can also tell you is that I can drive (actually…I mean to say the “car” can drive) from Southern Orange County (Dana Point) all the way to San Pedro on the freeway system, on its own and for lane changes and freeway interchanges, without intervention by me (save the “nag” feature). THAT …is in fact “full self driving” in a technical sense, even though there are times I have intervened in the past and am sure I’ll have to today and in the future. THAT for me, is ok and I actually enjoy watching the regular improvements in the iterations and marvel at how we’ve now got limit lines and red and green light recognition on city streets and stop signs and pedestrian recognition and bicycles and cones and on and on. NO ONE is doing this in live situations like Tesla and it’s been and remains Amazing to watch and be a part of. I like the Report Bug feature and being part of the feedback loop and when I travel and don’t have to change lanes myself or press the accelerator or think about navigation because the car does, that FSD value, for me…IS…actually..”Value.”

concerning the Yoke, I think the tech (like with the the turn indicators) and absence of the old school manual hardware on the cars is where things are going and using it currently, my experience is: it’s actually more intuitive and easier to reach and less time to do, once you’re got past the small learning curve and muscle memory from the old school way. I LOVE the look of the Yoke and so for me, I like the Yoke as default BUT …if there were someone that REALLY wanted a wheel, it wouldn’t give me heartburn if Tesla made that an option.

That said, like with the sunroof (that I loved by the way) or the reduction of paint colors, or interior stylings, I think Tesla trying to do the whole economies of scale thing and create efficiencies, and so they’re trying to create less variation in builds versus more and since they know where they’re intending to go on autonomy, may not feel it wise to revert or afford the option you are desiring.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,936
13,077
California
What I can tell you is that I don’t subscribe to it being lie and rather, DO subscribe to their portrayal that the entirety of it is and remains Beta versions
What about their ever-shifting portrayal of features, capabilities, and timelines? We are approaching 5 years of wildly inaccurate claims that I think do approach the actual definition of fraud.

All that said, what I can also tell you is that I can drive (actually…I mean to say the “car” can drive) from Southern Orange County (Dana Point) all the way to San Pedro on the freeway system, on its own and for lane changes and freeway interchanges, without intervention by me
I’d find it extremely remarkable if you could do this with any regularity on a semi-busy roadway without needing to intervene to keep the car from doing something stupid and/or downright dangerous. At best I find Navigate on Autopilot far more stressful and requiring much higher levels of attentiveness than controlling the car myself. At worst it’s downright dangerous.

I like the Report Bug feature and being part of the feedback loop
This feature doesn’t work the way you think it does. Bug reports go nowhere and don’t actually leave the car. The only time they’re ever looked at is if you schedule a service appointment for a specific issue and ask them to.
 

blackhawk

Member
Sep 30, 2015
105
118
USA
The $10k you spent on FSD was already wasted. There is no way Tesla is shipping FSD on any current model in the short or medium term. The endless delays and shifting stories around FSD are evidence enough that Tesla are just out of their depth and it's only Elon's delusion keeping the Level 5 FSD charade going. I'm all for doing R&D but Elon made a huge mistake in pre-selling FSD to customers.

As a hobby I like reading about financial and energy scams (usually cold fusion or some variation). Some of them are outright scams and some of them are self-deluded inventors. Either way, the FSD story sure sounds familiar.

Having said all that, it's the new yoke without stalks that stopped me from upgrading. And of course the lack of options for a six figure car, but that's just a Tesla feature. :rolleyes:
 

FunSecured

Member
Sep 7, 2019
110
235
Laguna Beach
So, we fundamentally disagree it seems. I don’t know if your “short” Tesla or what is fueling your really angry posture in this, but my perception and experience of all this (and this is my last word on it today, as I’m out to the “day”) is quite different.

If you know Tesla and Elon, timelines are NOT his strong suite.

Would it be nice if it were. Of Course!

That is very different than whether he ultimately delivers on promises made.

Whether production of the 3, getting to profitability, economies of scale, battery advancements, “energy” gaining ground, insurance business advancement, revenue streams, Y being here, Cybertruck on the way, more factories on the way, China being wildly successful thus far, or…in this…the monumental better changes we’ve seen in interrations of FSD, he does generally keep true to the promises he makes, it just takes (way) longer than he anticipates; sometimes significantly so (admittedly)!

If we look at his other endeavors outside of Tesla he is similarly wildly successful and proven commodity, over time.

Being candid, I’m really unconcerned with whether you find credible my account of travel using FSD from OC to LA, as that repeatedly has in fact been my experience and I’ve had multiple Tesla’s over years.

We have a Mod Y right now, a 3 and an S and they ALL have FSD and I’ve used them ALL, all over the freeway systems in LA, OC, San Diego, Ventura, etc.

I don’t know what your experience is with it other than what I’m hearing here, but mine (with lane changes for example on the freeway) is that they’ve become really quite good and more oftenhuman like.

That is different than to say there aren’t times I need to intervene or that FSD doesn’t make mistakes.

It does. BUT…since 2018 I’ve had opportunity to see what it could do versus what it does do now and those changes are monumental and are going to continue.

So..in summary…Best wishes for a good day, as I’m getting on the freeway now to go spend some time with Fam (and yes, ’ll quite happily use FSD on the way there and back - and find it peaceful when I do ;-)
 

AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,603
4,175
Northern California
So, we fundamentally disagree it seems. I don’t know if your “short” Tesla or what is fueling your really angry posture in this, but my perception and experience of all this (and this is my last word on it today, as I’m out to the “day”) is quite different.

If you know Tesla and Elon, timelines are NOT his strong suite.

Would it be nice if it were. Of Course!

That is very different than whether he ultimately delivers on promises made.

Whether production of the 3, getting to profitability, economies of scale, battery advancements, “energy” gaining ground, insurance business advancement, revenue streams, Y being here, Cybertruck on the way, more factories on the way, China being wildly successful thus far, or…in this…the monumental better changes we’ve seen in interrations of FSD, he does generally keep true to the promises he makes, it just takes (way) longer than he anticipates; sometimes significantly so (admittedly)!

If we look at his other endeavors outside of Tesla he is similarly wildly successful and proven commodity, over time.

Being candid, I’m really unconcerned with whether you find credible my account of travel using FSD from OC to LA, as that repeatedly has in fact been my experience and I’ve had multiple Tesla’s over years.

We have a Mod Y right now, a 3 and an S and they ALL have FSD and I’ve used them ALL, all over the freeway systems in LA, OC, San Diego, Ventura, etc.

I don’t know what your experience is with it other than what I’m hearing here, but mine (with lane changes for example on the freeway) is that they’ve become really quite good and more oftenhuman like.

That is different than to say there aren’t times I need to intervene or that FSD doesn’t make mistakes.

It does. BUT…since 2018 I’ve had opportunity to see what it could do versus what it does do now and those changes are monumental and are going to continue.

So..in summary…Best wishes for a good day, as I’m getting on the freeway now to go spend some time with Fam (and yes, ’ll quite happily use FSD on the way there and back - and find it peaceful when I do ;-)
Love it! Anyone who calls Tesla/EM out on their BS must a short.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,936
13,077
California
So, we fundamentally disagree it seems. I don’t know if your “short” Tesla or what is fueling your really angry posture in this, but my perception and experience of all this (and this is my last word on it today, as I’m out to the “day”) is quite different.

If you know Tesla and Elon, timelines are NOT his strong suite.

Would it be nice if it were. Of Course!

That is very different than whether he ultimately delivers on promises made.

Whether production of the 3, getting to profitability, economies of scale, battery advancements, “energy” gaining ground, insurance business advancement, revenue streams, Y being here, Cybertruck on the way, more factories on the way, China being wildly successful thus far, or…in this…the monumental better changes we’ve seen in interrations of FSD, he does generally keep true to the promises he makes, it just takes (way) longer than he anticipates; sometimes significantly so (admittedly)!

If we look at his other endeavors outside of Tesla he is similarly wildly successful and proven commodity, over time.

Being candid, I’m really unconcerned with whether you find credible my account of travel using FSD from OC to LA, as that repeatedly has in fact been my experience and I’ve had multiple Tesla’s over years.

We have a Mod Y right now, a 3 and an S and they ALL have FSD and I’ve used them ALL, all over the freeway systems in LA, OC, San Diego, Ventura, etc.

I don’t know what your experience is with it other than what I’m hearing here, but mine (with lane changes for example on the freeway) is that they’ve become really quite good and more oftenhuman like.

That is different than to say there aren’t times I need to intervene or that FSD doesn’t make mistakes.

It does. BUT…since 2018 I’ve had opportunity to see what it could do versus what it does do now and those changes are monumental and are going to continue.

So..in summary…Best wishes for a good day, as I’m getting on the freeway now to go spend some time with Fam (and yes, ’ll quite happily use FSD on the way there and back - and find it peaceful when I do ;-)
Sigh. Yes, a long-time owner and shareholder speaking truthfully about the past and current state of Tesla’s autonomous driving must obviously be a “short”, and furthermore “angry”.

What leads you to believe I’m angry? I love my car. I’ve put 120,000 drama-free miles on it. I’ve just outgrown the need to convince myself that Tesla can do no wrong. They flat-out suck at certain stuff and I’m not shy to talk about it.

I don’t doubt your claims about using Navigate on Autopilot. I do think you’re exaggerating your car’s ability to complete a reasonably long multi-freeway drive, during normally busy traffic conditions without intervention. And I do think that anyone claiming with a straight face that NoA as it exists today is less stressful than managing things yourself is deep into confirmation bias territory, trying to convince themselves as to the value of their purchase.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,705
8,049
Seattle area, WA
rumors are the current code shows in addition to the subscription model, FSD is going to $14k..
Only $14k? It's been a couple of years since Elon predicted each Model 3 with FSD will be worth over $200K - that's when he tried to convince each Tesla car is an appreciating investment. I think though that he switched to pushing crypto instead - quicker, easier, and pure profit ($101M first quarter IIRC), so perhaps he no longer claims $200K worth for each Tesla with FSD.
 

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