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Is FSD worth it $10k? ( Any insight from Beta users)
- Thread starter Suns
- Start date
Tam
Well-Known Member
If you are a dedicated beta tester, then sure.
If you are a prudent consumer, then, no. With the current philosophy of anti-radar and anti-lidar, it's questionable when Robotaxi will be a reality during our lifetime.
At the critical time that FSD beta will go to wide release and Robotaxi next year, Andrej Karpathy, the AI chief, is taking a four-month sabbatical. Add that 4 months in addition to the above "lifetime".
Like buying any other new car, it’s an option package to tick that will include some things you want and some things you can live without....but it does give you the option to get into the beta program (that we don’t have here in Europe, so for us that would be a huge incentive)...and you have the opportunity to get it at a reduced price...plus it will get better (and occasionally worse) even if it never becomes a Robotaxis.
So in my opinion...get it...it’s priced like any other new car option (which usually means that you only get back a fraction of its worth when selling, but because it is always increasing in price, that secondhand value might also increase)...and most of all it’s a Tesla...and that means white faux leather and FSD...the whole experience
So in my opinion...get it...it’s priced like any other new car option (which usually means that you only get back a fraction of its worth when selling, but because it is always increasing in price, that secondhand value might also increase)...and most of all it’s a Tesla...and that means white faux leather and FSD...the whole experience
The current feature that gives value in my use case is Navigate on Autopilot. I paid less than $10k, I think it was $6K at the time for our Y, about $4K for the 3. So I've spent $10K in total to have in both our cars. Some people pay for the premium from performance, I would take that money and spend all day long on FSD because Navigate on Autopilot has value to ME but the extra acceleration and the less efficient wheels on the performance do not. This is non-beta view. I also spent $6K on wrap for our Y in an amazing color. It makes me happy every time I see it. Is it worth it? For us yes, for others probably not.
I also happen to have beta FSD. I thought it might be fun to see how it develops. To my pleasant surprise I've found utility in surface street FSD. It has a lot of room for improvement though.
Don't buy it because you think you are investing. Buy it if you think YOU will get $10K of joy out of it.
I also happen to have beta FSD. I thought it might be fun to see how it develops. To my pleasant surprise I've found utility in surface street FSD. It has a lot of room for improvement though.
Don't buy it because you think you are investing. Buy it if you think YOU will get $10K of joy out of it.
everydaychris
Active Member
I say yes. Worth it for me. But only if you think you'll be taking a ton of road trips. This is just for freeway FSD but still worth it and always improving and will always get more expensive
FSD isn’t worth $1K in its current public iteration.
And by the way, it now costs $12K, not 10.
Try the $199 subscription for a month and see if you like it more than the standard features.
Also, if you only plan on owning for 5-6 years, the subscription model makes WAY more sense and is cheaper.
mackgriggs
Member
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If you are planning on keeping the model y for 5-6 years, then purchasing it for $10k is WAY cheaper and makes more sense than the subscription.
When you go to sell, you are going to get some value out of the FSD purchase. Lets say 50%, perhaps more if you are able to sell private party, less if to a dealer, but lets say average 50%.
Right now....thats 50% of $12K, so $6k. Meaning, your real "cost" of FSD is going to be $4k. ($10k-$6k).
In 5-6 years? FSD is going to cost....who knows what. $15k, $18k, $20k? Honestly, the sky is the limit. At $20k....you are now getting $10k of resale value, so the FSD purchase was free.
Alternatively, if you did a subscription, at best case scenario where the monthly subscription stays at $200/month, thats $12k for 5 years. However, I guarantee you that as FSD continues to increase in price, the monthly price will also rise. People were surprised that when it jumped from $10k to $12k that the monthly price stayed the same. When it goes to 13k, or 14k? I bet it goes to at least $225, maybe $250/month. I bet over a 5 year period, you are easily going to be paying $14k-$15k in subscription fees.
Anyway, your real break even period of FSD where you are getting it for $10k vs subscription is 20 months. Like I said before, if NO prices change, your real cost is $4k, so at $200/month, that is 4000/200 = 20 months. If the FSD price or subscription price increases in those 20 months, then the break even point gets even shorter.
Now, the risks with the FSD purchase. If you crash your car, or sell your car earlier than the 20 months, then the subscription would have been cheaper. Or, if you would have been the type of user to only pay for a subscription to FSD when you thought you needed it, so you are continually canceling/resubscribing so you are not paying for it continually, then my calculations are not valid. But, I think it would be a very rare person that frequently cancels/resubscribes. Its more a risk where...with the subscription you get to "try it out", and maybe you decide its not worth it, so you are only paying for 1-2 months and then canceling. THAT is now way cheaper than the $10k FSD purchase.
My actual opinion of FSD, is that its awesome............ONLY if you are in the beta. If you are not in the beta, then...its only a slight upgrade from normal autopilot. But, you should really think that its not a $10k purchase...its a $4k upgrade at worst because you do get resell value out of it.
I'm always blown away by the Beta FSD software, and anyone I let test drive it are blown away too. Yes, its like a teenager on a learners permit currently, but yes, it does keep getting better and more reliable, though slow, and its fun to see that progress. I use it 90% of my driving in town.
It sucks that they haven't added anyone into the beta since Christmas, but....that will change soon (probably). I'm guessing at some point they do it a completely open beta where they let anyone with FSD into it that wants it, and I'm guessing that is before the end of the year. Hopefully sooner.
As an example though.....I'm actually a monthly subscriber to FSD. Why? Because I know I'm switching cars often and I'm getting a truck (cybertruck, or rivian, or....? I have reservations for all of them) sometime next year, so getting it for my current Y didn't make sense.
I have advised at least ten friends to skip FSD and get performance instead - every one of them has thanked me.
If FSD had a graduated purchase ability: (eg: 3k for TACC, 6k for NOA, 12k for City Streets) AND it transferred with the driver to a future Tesla, I'd say it's reasonable to pick your option and enjoy. At the current pricing, it's a donation to Tesla's AI endeavors - I was happy to give the donation when the donation minimum was about half of current. Everyone has their price point.
If FSD had a graduated purchase ability: (eg: 3k for TACC, 6k for NOA, 12k for City Streets) AND it transferred with the driver to a future Tesla, I'd say it's reasonable to pick your option and enjoy. At the current pricing, it's a donation to Tesla's AI endeavors - I was happy to give the donation when the donation minimum was about half of current. Everyone has their price point.
5 years = 60 months X $199/month = $11,940. That’s a ~$2K premium that comes with a lot of benefits.
That’s a whole lot better than dropping $10K on something you are unsure about.
Also, it reduces your liability if the vehicle ever gets in an accident and is totaled. Do you think insurance is going to give you $10K or $12K to re-purchase on your replacement vehicle? Spoiler; they will not.
It also frees up the cash to invest in whatever you want. And when you consider FSD offers a zero return and very little value, I would suggest one could do better throwing darts at a board picking stocks.
mackgriggs
Member
Don't get me wrong...I am a big proponent of FSD BETA...but have counseled friends to not get FSD recently. But, its only because they thought they too were only going to keep their car for like a year a half or so.
Basically, its:
1. Are you going to keep the car 2 years or more? Then yes, I would recommend the FSD purchase.
2. If no, think about the subscription , but ONLY once they allow more people into the Beta. $200/month isn't worth it for non-beta FSD.
Basically, its:
1. Are you going to keep the car 2 years or more? Then yes, I would recommend the FSD purchase.
2. If no, think about the subscription , but ONLY once they allow more people into the Beta. $200/month isn't worth it for non-beta FSD.
Odd, my insurance Confirmed they Would replace the original OEM FSD if totaled.
EVFamilyGrins
Member
My wife hates FSD. She says driving a Tesla is so fun, why turn it over to a glitchy computer. However, she wishes her M3 had the Traffic Light Control visualization and option for chime when light turns green. Makes life easier when you have stop lights washed out by sun or you stop too close and don't have to contort to see lights hidden by sun visor or roof edge.
I love having FSD Beta on my MS and the feeling of being involved in improving the product. FSD Beta requires constant attention. Not because it is bad, just the opposite in fact. Once you learn the limitations of each release, you can get lulled into not paying attention as 95% of time it works perfectly. But the other 5% is random Huh moments to full WTF! You have to be ready to take control at any time.
This is not for everyone. Getting into Beta is difficult and Beta is for people who WANT to be part of the process and are willing to work thru the bugs.
If most of your driving is done at rush hour or with a lots of traffic, FSD beta may not be for you. Beta takes phantom breaking to a new level and combines it with random minor swerves. I have come to accept that sometimes it may take 20 seconds to stop and make a right turn at a stop sign, and have become immune to the gestures and honks from other motorists who do not have time for someone who does a full stop at stop signs and drives at speed limit or just above (yes Beta has no +5 mph restriction, but on windy two lane roads Beta does best near speed limit). I enjoy taking the "scenic" route because you missed the turn because Beta did not get into the proper lane soon enough. With patience, many trips can be made with only a few interventions.
If you decide that FSD is worth it for you, wait a few months to enroll in Beta. Enjoy the Tesla Grin from instant torque. Once you can merge onto a highway without punching it, you may be ready to enroll in Beta and learn the Grin from FSD making a perfect unprotected left.
I love having FSD Beta on my MS and the feeling of being involved in improving the product. FSD Beta requires constant attention. Not because it is bad, just the opposite in fact. Once you learn the limitations of each release, you can get lulled into not paying attention as 95% of time it works perfectly. But the other 5% is random Huh moments to full WTF! You have to be ready to take control at any time.
This is not for everyone. Getting into Beta is difficult and Beta is for people who WANT to be part of the process and are willing to work thru the bugs.
If most of your driving is done at rush hour or with a lots of traffic, FSD beta may not be for you. Beta takes phantom breaking to a new level and combines it with random minor swerves. I have come to accept that sometimes it may take 20 seconds to stop and make a right turn at a stop sign, and have become immune to the gestures and honks from other motorists who do not have time for someone who does a full stop at stop signs and drives at speed limit or just above (yes Beta has no +5 mph restriction, but on windy two lane roads Beta does best near speed limit). I enjoy taking the "scenic" route because you missed the turn because Beta did not get into the proper lane soon enough. With patience, many trips can be made with only a few interventions.
If you decide that FSD is worth it for you, wait a few months to enroll in Beta. Enjoy the Tesla Grin from instant torque. Once you can merge onto a highway without punching it, you may be ready to enroll in Beta and learn the Grin from FSD making a perfect unprotected left.
I bought it on my original Model 3 and it was well worth it.
It was a lot harder to justify for the MYP I just bought as it was $10k... but I will say that I use it all the time.
I'm not as impressed by the minimum 2 car length requirement and the 80 MPH speed limit in the current iteration on the MYP I've got.
In stop and go traffic 2 car lengths causes a number of problems. Specifically, it causes issues with people cutting you off when they see large open space in front of you.
80 MPH is slightly low, given the 75 MPH speed limits have here... 90 MPH was perfect on my Model 3 and would be here too.
If this is not fixed, then FSD is worth significantly less.
It was a lot harder to justify for the MYP I just bought as it was $10k... but I will say that I use it all the time.
I'm not as impressed by the minimum 2 car length requirement and the 80 MPH speed limit in the current iteration on the MYP I've got.
In stop and go traffic 2 car lengths causes a number of problems. Specifically, it causes issues with people cutting you off when they see large open space in front of you.
80 MPH is slightly low, given the 75 MPH speed limits have here... 90 MPH was perfect on my Model 3 and would be here too.
If this is not fixed, then FSD is worth significantly less.
gx9901
Member
I'm not really interested in FSD or FSD Beta, since I'd rather drive myself, but I do acknowledge that it is cool technology. If it was much cheaper I would certain consider buying it just to have something cool in my car. But $12k is not throw-away money for me.
I was listening to the latest TMC podcast and this week's guest said something about FSD that I would agree with, that a fully mature FSD would need way more cameras than what the current cars have and way more processing power from the FSD computer. I've always had doubts that my 2021 MYP's FSD-computer would be sufficient to process all the information once FSD reaches full release status, and I think that the number of cameras should at least double. I mean, right now the car can't even see 360 degrees around itself, how much can you truly trust it to FSD?
Anyway, I'm sure for many people FSD would be worth the asking price, but I personally am happy to keep that money.
I was listening to the latest TMC podcast and this week's guest said something about FSD that I would agree with, that a fully mature FSD would need way more cameras than what the current cars have and way more processing power from the FSD computer. I've always had doubts that my 2021 MYP's FSD-computer would be sufficient to process all the information once FSD reaches full release status, and I think that the number of cameras should at least double. I mean, right now the car can't even see 360 degrees around itself, how much can you truly trust it to FSD?
Anyway, I'm sure for many people FSD would be worth the asking price, but I personally am happy to keep that money.
Brian-MS90D
Member
FOOLSLFDRVNG
Member
When people talk about whether it's "Worth it" or not, I tend to put my accountant hat on.
What are the current features of FSD worth to you? (Navigate on AP + Summon + Autopark)
What is the potential of Autopilot worth to you? Now prorate and discount that based on the fact that you won't actually get to use it for the first 1-2 years of ownership. If you are going to own your car for 5 years, you might not see FSD for 2 years, that's going to be a pretty steep discount.
There is also some residual value when you sell the car, but that gets really weird.
For me, it is not worth it. Maybe for you it is. I do know a fair number of leasees who ended up with nothing at the end of their ownership. Also a few people who sold their car without ever using it. I doubt that'll be the case now, but the potential exists.
What are the current features of FSD worth to you? (Navigate on AP + Summon + Autopark)
What is the potential of Autopilot worth to you? Now prorate and discount that based on the fact that you won't actually get to use it for the first 1-2 years of ownership. If you are going to own your car for 5 years, you might not see FSD for 2 years, that's going to be a pretty steep discount.
There is also some residual value when you sell the car, but that gets really weird.
For me, it is not worth it. Maybe for you it is. I do know a fair number of leasees who ended up with nothing at the end of their ownership. Also a few people who sold their car without ever using it. I doubt that'll be the case now, but the potential exists.
mackgriggs
Member
Autopilot speed has been increased to 85mph recently. A much appreciated change.
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